If 5G happens, what will happen to YJ?

[Digifiend]

Ok some points:

1.) Cassie,Conner and Bart were replaced in NEW52 by other versions of them, so these Versions of Conner,Cassie and Bart are new for new readers.
If you take this into account then you can say that 77,000 is a strong number.

WW instead was always in the Comics,got her own Movie etc.

2.) I wasnt talking only about one book,but I was talking more about numbers over a longer period of time.
And I think that YJ (depending on the Storyline) could sell more issues than WW.

Cassie we can assume got merged at Superman Reborn (she was in comic book limbo at the time). Conner and Bart's New 52 versions have been outright replaced by their pre-Flashpoint versions, and Tim never rebooted in the first place (Batman just had it's timeline crunched, and then later reverted, and while Tim did lose memories, Zatanna restored them).

Difficult...

Miss Martian yes, Aqualad NO...

This Aqualad is also a new character,even he is popular in the TV show.

POSSIBLE addition for the teams are:
-Arrowette (she is in the show and there was the interview...) so she is definetely one who could come back...
-Static
-Secret (she was also mentioned in the interview)

I EXTREMELY hope for Traci13 as she is an interesting character and need more time in the comics,Blue Beetle...

Good and bad news for you. Arrowette's back as of issue 14, but Aqualad's along for the ride. Also Spoiler and Sideways.

Bendis wants Static but isn't allowed to use him.

Blue Beetle is currently Jokerised, a Batman Who Laughs servant called Scarab.

[skyvolt2000]

Cassie we can assume got merged at Superman Reborn (she was in comic book limbo at the time). Conner and Bart's New 52 versions have been outright replaced by their pre-Flashpoint versions, and Tim never rebooted in the first place (Batman just had it's timeline crunched, and then later reverted, and while Tim did lose memories, Zatanna restored them).

Good and bad news for you. Arrowette's back as of issue 14, but Aqualad's along for the ride. Also Spoiler and Sideways.

Bendis wants Static but isn't allowed to use him.

Blue Beetle is currently Jokerised, a Batman Who Laughs servant called Scarab.

If want I hear about a certain lawsuit-that might not be an issue anymore.

[Aahz]

I feel the exact opposite about the current TT.

For TT Glass has definitely planed and set up story and character arcs from the beginning, that are now slowly coming to an conclusion.

With YJ that doesn't really seem an overarching storyline sofar. Maybe there will come something down the road with Jinny or Teen Lantern who knows, but sofar there seems not much of direction going forward.

[Masterff]

Cassie we can assume got merged at Superman Reborn (she was in comic book limbo at the time). Conner and Bart's New 52 versions have been outright replaced by their pre-Flashpoint versions, and Tim never rebooted in the first place (Batman just had it's timeline crunched, and then later reverted, and while Tim did lose memories, Zatanna restored them).

I was talking about READERS POINT OF VIEW...
If you came to DC during NEW52 or at the begin of Rebirth you dont know Pre-Flashpoint Bart,Cassie and Conner.

So Pre-Flashpoint Conner,Cassie,Bart were absent in the comics for long time and might be new for new readers..

[Fergus]

I was talking about READERS POINT OF VIEW...
If you came to DC during NEW52 or at the begin of Rebirth you dont know Pre-Flashpoint Bart,Cassie and Conner.

So Pre-Flashpoint Conner,Cassie,Bart were absent in the comics for long time and might be new for new readers..

It's questionable how many new readers NU52 and Rebirth brought in but even then Pre-Flash Bart, Cassie, Conner still had a very well established fanbase that been around decades and were desperate for their return.

Those alone should have made the title more successful but the reality is that it's looking like their fanbase wasn't as established as we believed or a bulk of them have moved on to better things.

Sure we can blame the meh story and the way bendis is handling the characters etc for the declining sales but the NO 1 issue is before any of that.
We also can't blame lack of promotion since the YJ originals coming back was promoted like a huge event. DC went all out.

[Masterff]

It's questionable how many new readers NU52 and Rebirth brought in but even then Pre-Flash Bart, Cassie, Conner still had a very well established fanbase that been around decades and were desperate for their return.

Those alone should have made the title more successful but the reality is that it's looking like their fanbase wasn't as established as we believed or a bulk of them have moved on to better things.

Sure we can blame the meh story and the way bendis is handling the characters etc for the declining sales but the NO 1 issue is before any of that.
We also can't blame lack of promotion since the YJ originals coming back was promoted like a huge event. DC went all out.

I dont understand what you are talking about..

YJ 1 was a SUCCESS...they reached this numbers WITHOUT having big names in the comics.
Then we saw a devline, but this wasnt a surprise a for me, since I am also a big fan of Tim,Conner,Bart,Cassie...BUT I dont like the series, because of a bunch of reasons, which I already wrote before.

DC should simply change Damians Team with Tims Team....I would love to see Tim,Conner,Bart and Cassie in more mature stories and being older...

[Godlike13]

He's saying books are ordered months in advanced, before anyone have read them. YJ #1 launch numbers were rather mild considering the roll out, and especially over inflated given it loss over 50% of those number by issue #2. Which is high for a #2 drop. Its not a quality issue, its a lack of general interest issue. They lunched multiple Titans series with Tim and the YJ group and they failed to really catch, and kind of left TT with a less then favorable rep, and now they brought YJ back with even more support and its failing to really catch. So the question becomes if that group actually has as big of a fan base as people seem to think they do.

I'd argue even that if they put even half the amount of effort and higher end talent on other generations they can easily match that groups performance and even surpass it. (Opinions on Bendis might be varied but Bendis is still probably one of DC highest paid guys. So they aren't putting him on just any projects.)

[Fergus]

I dont understand what you are talking about..

YJ 1 was a SUCCESS...they reached this numbers WITHOUT having big names in the comics.
Then we saw a devline, but this wasnt a surprise a for me, since I am also a big fan of Tim,Conner,Bart,Cassie...BUT I dont like the series, because of a bunch of reasons, which I already wrote before.

DC should simply change Damians Team with Tims Team....I would love to see Tim,Conner,Bart and Cassie in more mature stories and being older...

Godlike13's post might explain what I'm trying to say better.

What do you mean by change Damian's Team with tim's?
Jurgen's currently in the Walmart TT comic has Tim with Damian's 1st TT line up and it's not that exciting.

Putting the YJ crew with Crush and Djinn and co sounds silly. I don't understand what you mean by changing teams but I doubt that's the solution.

Characters themselves have to pull the readers in, the writer has to use them properly and have good ideas.

Damian's team is fine and interesting DC shouldn't mess with that. they just need to figure out how to use The YJ team better. I saw on Instagram that bendis is adding more characters. I feel that this is just going to make things worse sadly

[shadow6743]

Are you literally saying you should change the branding the books? Because I really don't see how that solves anything? Yes branding matters and quite frankly Young Justice has the name recognition and well known characters to succeed. There couldn't be a better time for this book. However, I know Adam Glass' Teen Titans may not be everyone's cup of tea but I have never seen it called boring. Glass clearly has a story to tell and is doing it well with new characters. As shown by it consistently being in the top 30 of digital sales when it comes out and its trade sales.

Young Justice on the other hand while having recognizable characters as well as new additions does not seem to be going anywhere. Its written by a well known name in comics and is part of a line made for young readers. If a book made for young fans is not selling in trades or well digitally there is a clear problem. Issue 1 may have sold 70,000 but in October it was a little more than 20,000 in the direct market. Teen Titans sells about that much to in direct sales but its consistently on the top of digital sales and trades.

[Masterff]

Are you literally saying you should change the branding the books? Because I really don't see how that solves anything? Yes branding matters and quite frankly Young Justice has the name recognition and well known characters to succeed. There couldn't be a better time for this book. However, I know Adam Glass' Teen Titans may not be everyone's cup of tea but I have never seen it called boring. Glass clearly has a story to tell and is doing it well with new characters. As shown by it consistently being in the top 30 of digital sales when it comes out and its trade sales.

Young Justice on the other hand while having recognizable characters as well as new additions does not seem to be going anywhere. Its written by a well known name in comics and is part of a line made for young readers. If a book made for young fans is not selling in trades or well digitally there is a clear problem. Issue 1 may have sold 70,000 but in October it was a little more than 20,000 in the direct market. Teen Titans sells about that much to in direct sales but its consistently on the top of digital sales and trades.

I explained it here
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-Super-Heroes)

Did you ever read the OLD Young Justice series?

The Series is about YOUNG Heroes who are at the beginning of their career, struggling with school and being a hero, first love etc.
Tims Generation is the 90ies generation and should be finished with these themes...
Damian,Jonathan,Wallace,Crush,Djinn,Roundhouse.... .instead are relatively fresh in the field, go to school, find first love, Social Media etc.
They are more like the TODAYS youth and connect better with them, while Tims Generation connects with the 90ies Generation..
So Damians Team should be YOUNG JUSTICE...

Teen Titans/Titans instead are groups of ALREADY ESTABLISHED Heroes who fight bigger villains, go to college, begin to work, marry....

So it would be only NATURAL to transform the teams and also switch the labels:


WONDER COMICS:
Young Justice (11-15 age): Damian,Jonathan,Wallace,Teen Lantern,Crush,Djinn,Roundhouse
SuperSons

MAIN LABEL:
Titans: Wally,Donna,Red Arrow,Garth....
Titans 2: Tim,Conner,Bart,Raven,Miss Martian,Cassie,

So for me YOUNG JUSTICE means a particular age group,storylines which are more adapted for this age group etc.


SALES:

I already mentioned my points earlier:
I grew up with CONNER,TIM,BART,CASSIE....I am now OVER 30 YEARS old.
I am a huge fan of the Teen Titans Pre-Flashpoint Series by Johns, while i DONT LIKE the actual Young Justice Series.

Like I said it before: I WANT to see CASSIE,CONNER,BART,TIM.. in mature,dark stories..under the MAIN-LABEL and AGED UP (21-25 YEARS!!).

I would say the following:
YJ (ACTUAL): better team
TT(ACTUAL): better Storylines and they are in the Main-Label

I can completely understand the numbers, because I LOVE Cassie,Conner,Bart and Tim; BUT TT has the better storylines and they are involved in the main-Stories.

[Masterff]

Godlike13's post might explain what I'm trying to say better.

What do you mean by change Damian's Team with tim's?
Jurgen's currently in the Walmart TT comic has Tim with Damian's 1st TT line up and it's not that exciting.

Putting the YJ crew with Crush and Djinn and co sounds silly. I don't understand what you mean by changing teams but I doubt that's the solution.

Characters themselves have to pull the readers in, the writer has to use them properly and have good ideas.

Damian's team is fine and interesting DC shouldn't mess with that. they just need to figure out how to use The YJ team better. I saw on Instagram that bendis is adding more characters. I feel that this is just going to make things worse sadly

Here I already explained it:
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-Super-Heroes)

If you EVER read the old Young Justice Comics, than you see that they are about YOUNG Heroes who are at the BEGINNING of their career, struggle with school, find first love etc. etc.
This fits actual better with Jonathan,Damian,Crush,Djinn,Roundhouse,Teen Lantern etc.
They are young,at the beginning of their career,find first love,Social Media etc.
AND! they reflect better the ACTUAL YOUTH, while Tims Generation is more the 90ies youth.

Teen Titans/Titans instead is more a team for the more established heroes, who go to college, first work, fight bigger villains etc. etc.

Its NOT!! only about the characters!!!

I for example grew up with Tim,Bart,Conner,Cassie...they are my favorite DC Characters, BUT NOW I am over 30 years old and I also want to see them become older and fight along the JL in mature Stories....

Tim,Cassie,Conner,Bart are my FAVORITE DC CHARACTERS,BUT!!! I prefer TT, BECAUSE!! it has better storylines and they are involved in the main-stories.

[Masterff]

He's saying books are ordered months in advanced, before anyone have read them. YJ #1 launch numbers were rather mild considering the roll out, and especially over inflated given it loss over 50% of those number by issue #2. Which is high for a #2 drop. Its not a quality issue, its a lack of general interest issue. They lunched multiple Titans series with Tim and the YJ group and they failed to really catch, and kind of left TT with a less then favorable rep, and now they brought YJ back with even more support and its failing to really catch. So the question becomes if that group actually has as big of a fan base as people seem to think they do.

I'd argue even that if they put even half the amount of effort and higher end talent on other generations they can easily match that groups performance and even surpass it. (Opinions on Bendis might be varied but Bendis is still probably one of DC highest paid guys. So they aren't putting him on just any projects.)

77,000 is high, if you think that Bart,Conner,Cassie were replaced in NEW52 and are new for many readers.

And the question is WRONG!!!!
You must also consider that the Series comes out under the Wonder Label, so its difficult to compare the numbers.
Conner,Cassie,Bart and Tim are my favorite DC Characters of all time, BUT I am over 30.
I tried to read the new YOUNG JUSTICE Series, but I dont like it.
I prefer the Johns TT Series with the mature storylines,bigger villains etc. etc.

Here a collection of (MY PERSONAL) Pros and Contras:

Pros:
-I am a fan of the team
-Bart is awesome

Contras:
-I dont like the storylines
-they are not connected with the main Stories like Year of the Villain, Doomsday Clock etc. etc.
-part of their history got cancelled (Reign of Supermen,IC)
-Cassie got a new origin and lost her lasso of lightning
-Conner seems to be depowered
-Conner seems to be now overshadowed by Jonathan and Kenan
-Tim changed from Red Robin to Drake
-I am not a fan of the rest of the team
-Conner,Cassie,Bart,Tim...are to young for me, I wished that they would come back older
-I prefer Conners and Cassies old attitude..

I am a HUGE fan of the Johns Teen Titans Run with Cassie,Conner,Bart and Tim...


So my biggest wish would be:
1. Bring back Reign of Supermen and IC
2. Let Conner,Cassie,Bart,Tim...age up
3. Bring Miss Martian,Blue Beetle,Traci13....back in the team
4. Change their team-name and Label
5. Tim back to Red Robin
6. Let JOHNS write the series..

So I am a big fan of Cassie,Conner,Bart and Tim, BUT I just dont like EVERYTHING what happened to them after they came back.

[shadow6743]

Here I already explained it:
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-Super-Heroes)

If you EVER read the old Young Justice Comics, than you see that they are about YOUNG Heroes who are at the BEGINNING of their career, struggle with school, find first love etc. etc.
This fits actual better with Jonathan,Damian,Crush,Djinn,Roundhouse,Teen Lantern etc.
They are young,at the beginning of their career,find first love,Social Media etc.
AND! they reflect better the ACTUAL YOUTH, while Tims Generation is more the 90ies youth.

Teen Titans/Titans instead is more a team for the more established heroes, who go to college, first work, fight bigger villains etc. etc.

Its NOT!! only about the characters!!!

I for example grew up with Tim,Bart,Conner,Cassie...they are my favorite DC Characters, BUT NOW I am over 30 years old and I also want to see them become older and fight along the JL in mature Stories....

Tim,Cassie,Conner,Bart are my FAVORITE DC CHARACTERS,BUT!!! I prefer TT, BECAUSE!! it has better storylines and they are involved in the main-stories.

No, if Teen Titans was for established characters then the 1980s New Teen Titans never would have happened. Which is what Glass is drawing from. Also I have read Young Justice quite frankly it really doesn't matter what you call them or if you push characters if their stories aren't good. What you are suggesting for the Young Justice cast was already done with Dick's generation in Titans and that book was canceled. Not to mention it would make that generation of heroes redundant. Also, Teen Titans has been what Young Justice was trying to do for years it's just the cast grew up and their problems changed as they did. Teen Titans is the perfect book for what Glass is currently doing.

[Godlike13]

77,000 is high, if you think that Bart,Conner,Cassie were replaced in NEW52 and are new for many readers.

And the question is WRONG!!!!
You must also consider that the Series comes out under the Wonder Label, so its difficult to compare the numbers.
Conner,Cassie,Bart and Tim are my favorite DC Characters of all time, BUT I am over 30.
I tried to read the new YOUNG JUSTICE Series, but I dont like it.
I prefer the Johns TT Series with the mature storylines,bigger villains etc. etc.

.....

77 isn’t that high, and again it dropped like a rock by issue#2. Which is also ordered before readers even gets their hands on #1. Bart, Cassie, and Connor were ”replaced” in the new 52 only after it was clear fans were rejecting what they were doing. Which to be fair the creators on them with the new #52 did a very bad job with them, so of course fans said no thanks. But that wasn’t the intention, they didn’t set out to make them different characters after the fact cause people responded so poorly to what they did with them.
YJ on the other hand was a return to form. DC giving fans what they thought they wanted with that gen. Bringing them back in their most recognizable forms, putting them in the hands one one of their top guys, and making it the flagship book of a new line to signify it’s extra special. And they made Tim “Drake” cause Red Robin was DOA. Nothing they did with it hit, no one was was biting elsewhere with it, and it literally just became an imitation Robin. There is no reason for Tim to go back to Red Robin.

Now they are not gonna make them the new Titans, cause they don’t like the Titans. They don’t want to invest in a young adult generation between TT age and JL. They had that, and they purposely tanked it. Despite the Rebirth series doing better then they expected, even with its mediocre creator support and poor quality, and even though elsewhere the company was launching a Titans show. The dudes behind the comic department are clearly opposed to that kind of idea. They don’t care for characters like Nightwing or Wally. They purposely sabotage them. So they probably aren’t interested in recreating a similar situation with another gen.

[Masterff]

No, if Teen Titans was for established characters then the 1980s New Teen Titans never would have happened. Which is what Glass is drawing from. Also I have read Young Justice quite frankly it really doesn't matter what you call them or if you push characters if their stories aren't good. What you are suggesting for the Young Justice cast was already done with Dick's generation in Titans and that book was canceled. Not to mention it would make that generation of heroes redundant. Also, Teen Titans has been what Young Justice was trying to do for years it's just the cast grew up and their problems changed as they did. Teen Titans is the perfect book for what Glass is currently doing.

That was 1980, with DICKS GENERATION...
I am talking about what happened when Tims Generation showed up.

Tims Generation started with YOUNG JUSTICE and the series was about their start as young heroes.
If you read Cissies storyline it was all about being a hero OR being a normal girl and there was also the school storyline...
Also Cassie was unsure about being a hero and she was struggling between school,being a hero also babysit kids etc.
It was also shown how Cassie and Conner become together etc.

Then they broke up and the core 4 reunited as TEEN TITANS with Cyborg,Raven,Starfire and Beast Boy.

YOUNG JUSTICE in Comics stands for a particular period of time which particular storylines.


What I am talking about is to change the teams based on their age, experience etc.:

Young Justice (11-15): Damian,Jonathan,Wallace,Keli,Crush,Djinn....
TIMS group (20-25): Bart,Tim,Raven,Cassie,Conner....

Keli,Hex...are newcomers and would fit better in Damians Team (based on age and experience than they do in Tims Team.