Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
You're not telling me what I don't know. Cap is more than Gruenwald, he didn't stop working for any government agency after the 70's I've given examples from modern comics where he does this. Rogers was the director of SHIELD and a long term SHIELD operative, like in Bru's run, long after Gruenwald left the title. Gruenwald had a lengthy and influential run on the title, but he isn't the sole defining Captain America in 616. Did you read Brubaker's run? They're good comics. Those comics don't disappear because you think Rogers stopped working for the government after the 70's.

My comment was about Cap's service in the government, post-Gruenwald, had nothing to do with Walker. Nothing about Walker himself, being a dark reflection of what Cap could be. That's blatantly obvious and has nothing to do with what I was discussing.



The Red Cross don't have them sticking pencil pushes, like Henry Gyrich, into powerful positions in the organisation and heavily impacting how its run. Being contracted is still working for them. They work with the government, they have a long history of not being free agents.



I've read years of Cap and Avengers comics.
Don't define Cap by Gruenwald, he says, then he proceeds to define Cap by Brubaker *rolls eyes*. Yes, I've read Brubaker. I've pretty much read all Captain America. But, here's the thing: Cap has been on and off with SHIELD for YEARS. Decades even. Was he working with SHIELD during Bru's run? Yes. Did it last? No. I mean you do remember what happened in the middle of Bru's run, don't you? Civil War. And the only reason he become Top Cop afterwards is because President Obama specifically asked him to, and agreed with Cap that the SHRA was "unamerican".



Steve puts his morals first, and everything else second. Especially the government. I believe that's what I said is it not? That Cap has worked with the government, but it never lasts because he does not do well in that role, especially as someone who values ethics over government leadership. So your example, in the grand scheme of things, just proves my point! And honestly, Cap quitting SHIELD over ethics is a running gag at this point he's done it so often. He and Nick and/or Hill get along for about two panels then Steve is quitting again over moral integrity. It should be a drinking game, how long will Steve work with SHIELD until he quits this time?! (if SHIELD were still around, that is, which it isn't).



Here is Cap's current stance, in the comics, right now, as we speak:



So, again, your Brubaker example is but a blip in the radar of a long standing (decades long) battle between Steve and holding the government accountable. You claim to be cognizant of Cap history. You should know this.

As for the Avengers, it makes all the difference in the world. Being a non-state actor means that the Avengers get to choose their own leadership, choose their membership, choose what crises to respond to, who to fight and where to go. The UN, in the interim, makes them sign a contract that they will act in a respectable manner, uphold International Law and treat people humanely. This agreement with the UN offered the Avengers legitimacy, but the Avengers were still in control of their operation. That is the difference between being a government stooge, who takes orders from the government, and being contracted. So yes, there *is* a difference.

When Steve was leader of the Avengers and the Avengers were a non-state actor (he's not now, T'Challa is leader, and Steve helped elect him! Moreover the Avengers haven't been a non-state actor since Avengers Disassembled) he wasn't agreeing to work with the government, he was agreeing to uphold international law and act responsibly while he led the Avengers to do their own thing and the UN would back them up because they realized the necessity of the Avengers. The minute the Avengers acted in a way that the UN felt untoward (re: Avengers Disassembled) the UN terminated their contract. It was, however, the Avengers choice to disband after that, the UN didn't make them. And *that* had more to do with Avengers mansion exploding, Tony Stark being out of money, and their reputation being shot more than anything else.