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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor-Ul View Post
    More than a Vertigo Legion, it was a Dark Knight Returns Legion. 5YL had all the tropes from post TDKR era, applied to the Legion myths: older heroes, lost idealism, decadent society, broken friendships, corruption of older characters, cynism, gratuitous deaths. It was a representative of the dark age of comics. If it would had been an history with his own timeline or reality, an elseworld or an independent graphic novel, it would had worked better. This changed the concept of the Legion and the context they supposedly repressents.

    I don't say it was bad. It had its strengs, specially on some sci-fi aspects of the society. But this iteration it was a product of its time, one of many with heroes becoming darker and burned out. I'm glad there are people who liked, but I think this era is when everything started to go wrong with the Legion.
    Agree on all points.

    I always said to my friends that if this had been a book about unknown heroes, it would've been a masterpiece. But the Legion just didn't fit IMO in this dark, hopeless world.

  2. #17

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    Well, according to the May 2020 DC solicits, the Legion 5 Years Later Omnibus is indeed still scheduled for August this year -- August 12, 2020 to be exact.

    It'll weigh in at over 1400 pages, so you can read the entire 5YL story and judge for yourself.

    I think now that the Legion has been rebooted and retconned several times since then, people can just read it for the story instead of being upset that it replaced their existing Legion. That's what prevented me from truly loving this series. Beyond the often-confusing storytelling techniques, what 5YL gave us was NOT better than what it replaced. That's the wrong way to do a reboot. In contrast, John Byrne's Superman and George Perez's Wonder Woman were light years better than what had just come before for those characters.

    Anyway, here's the current version of the solicit:

    Quote Originally Posted by DC Comics May 2020 solicits
    LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES: FIVE YEARS LATER OMNIBUS VOL. 1 HC
    written by KEITH GIFFEN, TOM BIERBAUM, MARY BIERBAUM, DAN JURGENS, and AL GORDON
    art by KEITH GIFFEN, JASON PEARSON, COLLEEN DORAN, CURT SWAN, STUART IMMONEN, DAN JURGENS, and others
    cover by DUSTY ABELL and BOB SMITH

    It’s the Legion of Super-Heroes like you’ve never seen them before, as the United Planets becomes a darker place, with familiar characters changed and the Earth overtaken by alien invaders—prompting the Legion to take on these dangerous new threats. Now this bold era of DC history is collected in an omnibus edition! Collects Legion of Super-Heroes #1-39, Timber Wolf #1-5, Legion of Super-Heroes Annual #1-3, and Adventures of Superman #478.

    ON SALE 08.12.20
    $150.00 US | 7.0625” x 10.875” | 1,424 PAGES
    FC | ISBN: 978-1-77950-313-8

  3. #18
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    Hopefully, it does come out.

    You know, I criticized the creative team awhile back for undoing the Rond Vidar is Green Lantern storyline. However, after reading an interview with Mark Waid, who was editor of the 5-year-gap Legion for a short period (and later became the writer of the Threeboot Legion), I must apologize. Here's what he said:

    "Already the Legion continuity had been plagued with revisions in mainstream DC continuity. We'd been told we could no longer make reference to Rond Vidar as a Green Lantern. We'd been told, thanks to Hawkworld rebooting Hawkman, that Thanagarians could no longer be in continuity. There were other instances of similar madness. But what killed us and killed any chance Legion Volume 4 had for a linear narrative that might have actually brought readers in was the Superman Ripple Effect. Because of interoffice politics and machinations that make no sense to me to this day, it was decided that not only was there no Superboy, but we weren't even allowed to reference him or to make reference to the Pocket Universe that he came from. Even Mon-El could no longer be called that because the 'El' name belonged exclusively to Superman."

    Also interesting was this:

    I'm the one who let Keith (Giffen) kill Blok, so we all have our crosses to bear. At the time of the Giffen relaunch, Keith wanted to pick a Legionnaire to kill - pick one by LITERALLY pulling a name out of a hat. That name was 'Blok'.
    Last edited by caj; 02-15-2020 at 06:57 PM.

  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post

    I'm the one who let Keith (Giffen) kill Blok, so we all have our crosses to bear. At the time of the Giffen relaunch, Keith wanted to pick a Legionnaire to kill - pick one by LITERALLY pulling a name out of a hat. That name was 'Blok'.
    I doubt that mattered much to Waid. He seemed to not like or even hate any Legion member created past the Silver Age. You look at all his Legion work in both the reboot and threeboot and he didn't use almost any of late 70's/80's characters even though they were some of the most most popular.

  5. #20
    Mighty Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Those Kieth Giffen drawn issues of 5yl might be my favorite issues ever in an ongoing series published by the big two*

    People like Moore, Chaykin, and Miller had revolutionized what could be done with comic panels, but none had the audacity to do everything in 9 panel grids. Even more insane is that this was a monthly comic, but upheld the same amount of quality and conducted the same risks as DC's prestige format mini series at the time like The Shadow, Gilgamesh ll, and DKR.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    I doubt that mattered much to Waid. He seemed to not like or even hate any Legion member created past the Silver Age. You look at all his Legion work in both the reboot and threeboot and he didn't use almost any of late 70's/80's characters even though they were some of the most most popular.
    I agree. There are some writers who are snobs when it comes to modern-day Legion characters. They believe that only the Adventure Comics legion members are true legionnaires. Characters like Timberwolf, Wildfire, Dawnstar, Blok, etc... just don't exist for them.

    Giffen liked even less members, which is why it was a mystery that he wanted to write the book in the first place. He just didn't seem to have a connection to very many of them. The fact that he decided who he would kill by drawing a name out of a hat is hilarious - and typical.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    Those Kieth Giffen drawn issues of 5yl might be my favorite issues ever in an ongoing series published by the big two*
    I have mixed emotions about that period of time. I can say that the book is fascinating, well-written, and had more information in one page than most books had in an entire issue. I was constantly having to go back to earlier days and research Legion history, which I loved.

    But I must say it was difficult to see some of the damage that happened to my favorite characters. It remains the only comic I ever read where I would be sick at my stomach each month before I read it because I never knew what was going to happen to someone I cared about.

  8. #23
    Mighty Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    I have mixed emotions about that period of time. I can say that the book is fascinating, well-written, and had more information in one page than most books had in an entire issue. I was constantly having to go back to earlier days and research Legion history, which I loved.

    But I must say it was difficult to see some of the damage that happened to my favorite characters. It remains the only comic I ever read where I would be sick at my stomach each month before I read it because I never knew what was going to happen to someone I cared about.
    Yeah, it seemed like a poor buisness decision on DC's part to allow Giffen and company to be able to do the time skip, abide by a 9 panel grid, and radically alter the tone from what Legion comics had been at that point. With Paul Levitz, the Legion of Superheroes were at their height of their popularity. Perhaps if 5 Years Later didn't happen LoSH could have continued to be one of DC's most popular franchises to this day, not the niche cult brand that it is today.

  9. #24
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    The FYL story perhaps did relegate the Legion to a secondary place compared to the past, but getting to that point likely had more to do with Crisis than anything else. DC flat out failed to revive Legion after Crisis, opting for multiple JL titles instead as team books, and Crisis also effectively ended Superboy.

    The original LoSH was born in the 1950s and reflected the "Golden Age Society" of the post-war era, when America was living high on the hog. Culture has changed so much since that time - generation after generation has dealt with huge social changes, economic changes and creeping cynicism. The time seems ripe now for a new, more diverse LoSH, that reflects culture's quest for socio-economic justice, and I am liking what Bendis is doing so far.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  10. #25
    Fantastic Member ultradav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor-Ul View Post
    More than a Vertigo Legion, it was a Dark Knight Returns Legion. 5YL had all the tropes from post TDKR era, applied to the Legion myths: older heroes, lost idealism, decadent society, broken friendships, corruption of older characters, cynism, gratuitous deaths. It was a representative of the dark age of comics. If it would had been an history with his own timeline or reality, an elseworld or an independent graphic novel, it would had worked better. This changed the concept of the Legion and the context they supposedly repressents.

    I don't say it was bad. It had its strengs, specially on some sci-fi aspects of the society. But this iteration it was a product of its time, one of many with heroes becoming darker and burned out. I'm glad there are people who liked, but I think this era is when everything started to go wrong with the Legion.
    Yes and no... the context was dark but there was an optimistic undertone, the Legion rising from the ashes to bring heroism back to the galaxy. One of the overall themes of the series was the triumph of the "human" spirit, even through the darkest of times. It was an interesting contrast: Giffen's run ended with the destruction of earth which is as grim as it gets but they also made a point to showcase the resilience of earth's population and their collective will being the catalyst for the end of Dominion rule.
    Last edited by ultradav; 02-20-2020 at 05:17 PM.

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