What's your preferred background for Alfred?

[Frontier]

I mean...not really? He's Bruce either way. The positive with Uncle Phillip is that it doesn't make Alfred look like the most ineffectual guardian ever. Who cares if Phillip is a bit of a **** up?

I also think it's more interesting if Bruce has an extended family and how he interacts with them. I think it makes him more human and would provide us with more opportunities to relate to him. How does he feel about them, how close is he really to them, etc? It is a little too convenient that once Thomas and Martha are dead, he has NO uncles, aunts, cousins or grandparents around. Maybe it was done to make him more isolated and to narrow the cast down to provide more angst for Bruce? Maybe the same train of thought as John Byrne making it so the Kents were alive into Clark's adulthood since he couldn't fathom anybody losing their parents and not becoming Batman, which is a frankly bizarre train of thought.

I think the lack of an extended family does add to the isolation and how closed-off Bruce is to the point where he dedicates his entire life to becoming Batman. He doesn't have any immediate family or anyone to take him in save Alfred, who tries his best but is never able to dissuade Bruce from his crusade.

He lost his family and didn't truly regain it until he became Batman and the Batfamily developed. And aside from Kate and Damian I don't think many people are all that interested in Bruce having alive biological family. Some people don't even like Kate being his biological cousin or having that connection to him.

[Tzigone]

Being raised by a butler feels more Bruce Wayne to me then by an extended family.

I strongly prefer his pre-COIE, more emotionally healthy, less emotionally-closed-off personality. I'm sure that's very "not Bruce Wayne" to people who prefer the modern version.

[SiegePerilous02]

I think the lack of an extended family does add to the isolation and how closed-off Bruce is to the point where he dedicates his entire life to becoming Batman. He doesn't have any immediate family or anyone to take him in save Alfred, who tries his best but is never able to dissuade Bruce from his crusade.

He lost his family and didn't truly regain it until he became Batman and the Batfamily developed. And aside from Kate and Damian I don't think many people are all that interested in Bruce having alive biological family. Some people don't even like Kate being his biological cousin or having that connection to him.

Having an extended family doesn't mean he has to be especially close to them, and it wouldn't erase the trauma of losing his parents. He is often portrayed as being close to Alfred even before the death of the Waynes, and Alfred being unable to dissuade Bruce from his crusade despite being in on it the whole time makes Alfred look like the worst guardian ever. Bruce can have aunts and uncles and only have surface level relationships with them, and not let them in on his plans so they wouldn't be able to stop them. And we have a good 40is years of published materials where that was the case.

With Kate, I think the issue was more that she was created to be more independent and not interact with him much. The retcon of her being a cousin changes their dynamic a bit and the nature of her origin and inspiration by Batman, and is not really an indication of a lack of interest in blood relatives on its own. It's just that she specifically doesn't work for some people.

I strongly prefer his pre-COIE, more emotionally healthy, less emotionally-closed-off personality. I'm sure that's very "not Bruce Wayne" to people who prefer the modern version.

I do too. And for a not insignificant length of time, it was very Bruce Wayne not to be an emotionally closed off *******. And he was a much better character for it.

Nice job screwing the pooch Alfred. Maybe Phillip is more competent than we realized

[Frontier]

I strongly prefer his pre-COIE, more emotionally healthy, less emotionally-closed-off personality. I'm sure that's very "not Bruce Wayne" to people who prefer the modern version.

I prefer a Batman who gets more emotionally healthy over time after he starts out as Batman and brings more people to the fold. It's then when he starts to finally really heal from what happened to him.

Having an extended family doesn't mean he has to be especially close to them, and it wouldn't erase the trauma of losing his parents. He is often portrayed as being close to Alfred even before the death of the Waynes, and Alfred being unable to dissuade Bruce from his crusade despite being in on it the whole time makes Alfred look like the worst guardian ever. Bruce can have aunts and uncles and only have surface level relationships with them, and not let them in on his plans so they wouldn't be able to stop them. And we have a good 40is years of published materials where that was the case.

I don't think it makes Alfred look like the worst guardian ever, just that all his efforts to take care of Bruce and make him happy couldn't prevent Bruce from becoming Batman. It's part of the complexity of their relationship and Alfred's role in supporting Bruce as Batman.

I can't think of anything that would really be added by having Bruce have random extended family. Any really parental or familial bond is pretty well embodied by Alfred.

With Kate, I think the issue was more that she was created to be more independent and not interact with him much. The retcon of her being a cousin changes their dynamic a bit and the nature of her origin and inspiration by Batman, and is not really an indication of a lack of interest in blood relatives on its own. It's just that she specifically doesn't work for some people.

It's kind of like how Batgirl was initially a solo hero fairly independent from Batman aside from the costume but subsequently then became more associated and closer to him in future comics/adaptions.

Nice job screwing the pooch Alfred. Maybe Phillip is more competent than we realized

I mean, there have been plenty of versions of Bruce who have only had Alfred and ended up pretty mentally stable. BTAS for one.

[Ascended]

Actor.

I'm not overly fond of every person in a hero's life being some sort of uber-capable super-spy or soldier or anything. Alfred coming from a theater background is still useful, but more of a "normal person" thing than "I was a Navy SEAL before joining the CIA and then I became a butler!"

I mean, if you wanna say Alfred did a tour of duty, cool. If he put in his four years (or whatever it is they do in the UK) and saw a little action and trained as a field medic, okay. A lot of people do that. But I don't want that role to be what defines Alfred's life before he ends up with the Waynes.

[gregpersons]

It makes sense to me that he'd have some kind of spy background, but maybe in a more grounded way — like Tom King himself, worked for the CIA before writing superhero comics.

He takes a job as Wayne's executive assistant, then finds himself assisting in a different capacity than he expected.

I don't need the father/grandfather angle with Alfred as overtly as it's been played, I kind of like the Jeremy Irons version in BvS who is both hired help and avuncular. And once you remove Alfred as Bruce's surrogate/adoptive father, then there's less need for him to be as old as Michael Caine.

I wouldn't hate to see a take that had a younger Alfred... or even one where Alfred / Bruce / Dick / Gordon / Lucius are relatively the same age, and the whole Batman thing is more of a joint enterprise.

This is also because "Batman's father" has been so played out that I'm interested to see the relationship dynamics explore new ground.

[jetengine]

You can have both frankly.

Uncle Phillip is the guardian but he's ineffectual, not bad per se just either too busy working or just not there enough to help Bruce overcome his demons.

[Flash Gordon]

He's a butler, maybe he had a passion for stage acting but never caught a break. That's about it. I loathe "badass backstories". The spy thing is awful.

I also wouldnt mind the entire situation being changed though! Make him a former friend of Thomas Wayne, maybe from the military, who steps in to take care of Bruce when his parents are murdered. Part of the appeal to this would be lessening the wealth of the Wayne family. I don't think Batman needs to be a billionaire. If anything being mega rich detracts from him. This also would make Alfred an accomplice, not a butler- which seems to be how he's written most of the time anyway.

[Jim Kelly]

I’m generally ambivalent about supporting characters acquiring all the properties of the character they support. Sometimes it works out and yields a spin-off that is superior to the original. But is that what we want for Bruce—to fade into the background and another character overtake him in importance?

If Alfred was just as good as Bruce and maybe better and the Batman is simply a byproduct of his magnificence, something Alfred invented, then Bruce is the inferior. I’d rather have the Horatio Alger story of Bruce being a self-invented man, where he owes nothing to anyone and became Batman through sheer will. He may have taken elements from his peers—but each of these only has a portion of what Batman has in total.

I enjoy PENNYWORTH, but I watch it as an Elseworld. I don’t believe the direction of that series leads to the Batman of the comics.

Alfred was created to be the epitomy of a supporting character, literally serving the main characters. Quirky enough for comic relief. He gained greater importance in the 1970s as a sounding board, because Robin wasn’t around for the expositional dialogue.

[Gurz]

He's the loyal Wayne family butler just like his father before him. No medic, no spy... may be nurse... But nothing exseeds being a butler.

[Gotham citizen]

Butler, simply butler.
In my humble opinion he Alfred's character is already perfectly definite and his role in the Batman's stories already useful like butler, so he doesn't need any improvement to become a more useful or interesting. The franchise is already plenty of (often forgotten) character who can be use in the various auxiliary role instead of Alfred: there is the Leslie Thompkins which is a doctor so she can heal Batman when he is wounded, there was Barbara Gordon, who in the role of Oracle was perfect (a role I think is more fit for her than Batgirl) to carry out the duties of intel, coordination and organization and so on.
More complex the Alfred's background is, more his competences are large and less the character is credible and enjoyable to me.

[John Venus]

My image of Alfred is shaped by 'Untold Legends of Batman' as well as the Zero Hour retelling of Batman's origin and B:TAS.

I'm not a fan of the Geoff Johns Earth One take on the character and interpretations that follow it (Beware the Batman and BatvsSup) where he is a bad ass mentor to Bruce Wayne.

I like the reserved, snarky, unfailingly polite and professional Alfred with a gentleman like attitude. He needs to contrast with Bruce's moody, driven demeanor. I love how in the Zero Hour retelling, Bruce is shown admiring Alfred when he first arrived in the Manor.

As for origin, I like the takes where butlering wasn't his initial calling but it became one as time passed. His true passion was in acting but he ended up joining MI:6 out of a sense of duty and it's where he learned how to shoot a gun, patch up bullet wounds and the skills of a mechanic. He saw a few fire fights but he was more or less the dude they sent in to negotiate sensitive hostage situations. The exact details of his service should always be ambiguous. Basically, I prefer my Alfred to be more Christopher Lee than Sean Connery, and yes, he did tell Bruce exactly how somebody who gets stabbed in the back would scream like. He was butlering for the Wayne's as a favor to his dying father but after the Wayne Family murder, he realizes that he can't leave Bruce alone and decides to raise him as his guardian.

[Tzigone]

In my humble opinion he Alfred's character is already perfectly definite and his role in the Batman's stories already useful like butler, so he doesn't need any improvement to become a more useful or interesting.

So, you think the improvement he already had - taking away any other occupations - was the appropriate one?

I'm not too happy with it, I admit. I think more recently too much of Alfred's life is caught up in Bruce I want him to have not only a life before Bruce, but a life outside Bruce in the present. I like him coming into Bruce's life when Bruce is an adult - no secret there. Not keen on the medical needs - too tailored to suit Batman's needs to me. But him having had a career worth mentioning (interesting, etc.) before hand goes a long way, to me, to him being more than just a butler and feeling like an actual person with an actual life (though we wouldn't see much of it) instead of just existing to serve Bruce's needs.

I like the reserved, snarky, unfailingly polite and professional Alfred with a gentleman like attitude. He needs to contrast with Bruce's moody, driven demeanor. I love how in the Zero Hour retelling, Bruce is shown admiring Alfred when he first arrived in the Manor.

I don't think he is unfailingly polite. He's been rude before, and I want to remember that. I think he gets a pass for bad things he does too often. I like him, but he's decidedly not perfect or always right. But then, I also like a less moody and driven Bruce.

[Gotham citizen]

Like I wrote: «The franchise is already plenty of (often forgotten) character who can be use in the various auxiliary role instead of Alfred: there is the Leslie Thompkins which is a doctor so she can heal Batman when he is wounded, there was Barbara Gordon, who in the role of Oracle was perfect (a role I think is more fit for her than Batgirl) to carry out the duties of intel, coordination and organization and so on.
More complex the Alfred's background is, more his competences are large and less the character is credible and enjoyable to me.»
So what you have written is a misinterpretation of what I actually wrote: I wrote Alfred doesn't need to be also a surgeon, a mechanic, a tailor of bulletproof vest and so on, to be a credible, interesting and useful character. Moreover what you wrote about his life earlier and outside the life of Bruce isn't in contrast with what I have written, but it is the essence of it. It seems to me to many times Alfred was evolved only as function of Batman's crusade (which is only a part of the Bruce Wayne's life), performing roles totally outside the role of butler, roles which are so diversified and so specialistic to be totally unrealistic: how can a butler be also a surgeon, a mechanic, a computer technician and more?
Alfred didn't need to be also all that things to have a daughter (Julia) or to date the Doctor Leslie Thompkins (like it happened in Gotham Knights 7), so why make the Alfred life more and more Batman-centered when he doesn't need? To me it isn't an improvement, but a distortion of the character.

P.S. I'm sorry because I fear my answer seems harsh, even if it wasn't my intention.