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  1. #1
    Fantastic Member
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    Default Carol and Tony Stark's alcoholism...

    which of these characters have more trouble staying away from the bottle? Or is it about equal?

  2. #2
    Tyrant Sun User leokearon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTTT View Post
    which of these characters have more trouble staying away from the bottle? Or is it about equal?
    Tony given he had a massive relapse and is still brought up. Carol (as far as I remember) was dealt with quite quickly and it is rarely mentioned these days.
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    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    I think there was a lot of talk about it during Busiek's run on both Avengers and Iron Man. Think it started being an issue after she lost most of her extra Binary powers.
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    Tyrant Sun User leokearon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    I think there was a lot of talk about it during Busiek's run on both Avengers and Iron Man. Think it started being an issue after she lost most of her extra Binary powers.
    She developed her drinking problem after the Morgan Quest but it seemed she largely got over it by the time she rejoined the Avengers around Vol 3 #26 and it was never really brought up much since
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  5. #5
    I am BLACK GUY dreyga2000's Avatar
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    Fun Fact: Tony is Carolís AA sponsor. They actually went to a meeting together during CW II

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by leokearon View Post
    Carol (as far as I remember) was dealt with quite quickly and it is rarely mentioned these days.
    They have been referring to it again lately, it was talked about in her current series and when she guest starred in Iron Man a few months ago.

  7. #7
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Yes they talked about their relationship. Tony felt like he relapsed in eScape. Tony is usually the one they show more on edge with it, but they still show Carol's struggle as well. With everything she deals with and this proves why she is the definition of a warrior.
    " This is why you're the head of S.H.I.E.L.D, Stark. Because you're stronger than anyone. It's not the armor....and you know it. Your here because impossible things happen, and when they do, They call on you to deal with them. You see the angles, Tony. You always have. You see the possible solutions to things that shouldn't be happening." CAROL DANVERS

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Seren's Avatar
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    Kelly Thompson also touched on it in Jessica Jones - Carol met Jess at a bar and ordered Seltzer. I think it kind of floored a lot of people because they didn't know Carol was an alcoholic. I'm glad Thompson isn't shying away from it.
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  9. #9
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    I think Carol's was brought up in the Life of Captain Marvel and Tony almost relapsed in Slott's series.
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  10. #10
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    I wish AA/staying sober was a much bigger part of Iron Man's stories.

  11. #11
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    I wish AA/staying sober was a much bigger part of Iron Man's stories.
    I wish that and his battles with depression would be as well.
    " This is why you're the head of S.H.I.E.L.D, Stark. Because you're stronger than anyone. It's not the armor....and you know it. Your here because impossible things happen, and when they do, They call on you to deal with them. You see the angles, Tony. You always have. You see the possible solutions to things that shouldn't be happening." CAROL DANVERS

  12. #12
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    I think Carol's was brought up in the Life of Captain Marvel and Tony almost relapsed in Slott's series.
    It was. It was also brought up in #14 of Tony Stark/Iron Man.
    " This is why you're the head of S.H.I.E.L.D, Stark. Because you're stronger than anyone. It's not the armor....and you know it. Your here because impossible things happen, and when they do, They call on you to deal with them. You see the angles, Tony. You always have. You see the possible solutions to things that shouldn't be happening." CAROL DANVERS

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    I wish AA/staying sober was a much bigger part of Iron Man's stories.
    That is a shame that his alcoholism is only brought up sparingly though. That's one of the reasons that I enjoy reading Iron Man is his struggle with alcoholism. With all that he goes through trying to keep his heart running and people stealing his tech, it's amazing that it isn't brought up more.

  14. #14
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    Alcoholism is a disease, but it's also a secondary disease, a symptom of something else underlying.

    tony's much more than his alcoholism... yes he did struggle with it, but alcoholism is a symptom of something deeper, like him struggling with losing his company, trying to shield himself with it by separating iron man/tony stark in his mind to rationalize it, civil war and various other stresses of life... currently I think it's a form of DP/DR... but the question is if he's drinking because of the stress or because he wants to feel like tony stark again.

    similarly for carol it was honestly a host of different traumas... things like depersonalization/derealization where she didn't feel like carol anymore because all her memories felt like someone else's, all her issues with losing control (from rape, rogue's mind wipe, power loss, torture at the hands of the brood, power loss again), her struggling with relying on help from others which made the problem worse (because of her upbringing of a distant, discouraging parent, and how when she needed help the most during her rape, she was let down). She basically got comboed by all these things at once (her previous escape was roaming in space and exploring stars)

    Alcoholism is more dramatic, but dramatic can be overpowering for all the subtleties and I always feel like the underlying issues could garner much richer stories. Like I was reading Tony's recent struggles, and wouldn't it have been nice if they could relate it with carol on one of their underlying issues (DP/DR)? Sure at first carols underlying issues were different than tony's (and he acknowledged that), but they related on the alcoholism their secondary disease.... but now they could do it something more causal, more fundamental. Sometimes fixing that can take away the urge to drink, or seek other escapes as well.
    Last edited by Ichijinijisanji; 11-28-2019 at 05:11 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    Alcoholism is a disease, but it's also a secondary disease, a symptom of something else underlying.

    tony's much more than his alcoholism... yes he did struggle with it, but alcoholism is a symptom of something deeper, like him struggling with losing his company, trying to shield himself with it by separating iron man/tony stark in his mind to rationalize it, civil war and various other stresses of life... currently I think it's a form of DP/DR... but the question is if he's drinking because of the stress or because he wants to feel like tony stark again.

    similarly for carol it was honestly a host of different traumas... things like depersonalization/derealization where she didn't feel like carol anymore because all her memories felt like someone else's, all her issues with losing control (from rape, rogue's mind wipe, power loss, torture at the hands of the brood, power loss again), her struggling with relying on help from others which made the problem worse (because of her upbringing of a distant, discouraging parent, and how when she needed help the most during her rape, she was let down)

    Alcoholism is more dramatic, but dramatic can be overpowering for all the subtleties and I always feel like the underlying issues could garner much richer stories. Like I was reading Tony's recent struggles, and wouldn't it have been nice if they could relate it with carol on one of their underlying issues (DP/DR)? Sure at first carols underlying issues were different than tony's (and he acknowledged that), but they related on the alcoholism their secondary disease.... but now they could do it something more causal, more fundamental. Sometimes fixing that can take away the urge to drink, or seek other escapes as well.
    Agreed. The movies made him compelling by focusing on the PSTD over losing his parents, and fearing that his failure to act would cost the lives of his friends and loved ones. It was never actually confirmed that he was an alcoholic, and the movies moved away from even hinting at it after the first couple of movies. The problem with alcoholism is it is too unsubtle and unnuanced and screen-time-consuming a problem. Not only is it inherently unnuanced in an action story, it gobbles up so much screen-time that there really isn't even room to give character more nuanced problems. That's why the movies dumped it in favor of PSTD, a problem that can be given more nuance because it can flow into so many more plot-points.

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