upgrading Cyborg

[lemonpeace]

I was reading Rai #1 from Valiant, and I was really digging it and how cool they portrayed the lead characters who are cybernetic, and it got me thinking about how other robot/tech-based heroes, Cyberforce from Top Cow, Genos from One Punch Man, Ghost in the Shell, Metal Gear Solid etc, and it really just got me bothered with how outdated feeling Cyborg is technologically. He doesn't feel as quick, agile, precise, sophisticated or as powerful in comparison to a lot of other comtemporary cybernetic characters. he feels more like in-line with an old outdated idea of what a "super advanced" cyborg would be like.

so what do you think are some cool technological upgrades they could give Cyborg to up his cool factor. weapons, utilities, gizmos, gadgets, design choices, armor, nanotechnology, etc. whatever you can think of.

[Robotman]

Cyborg fans like myself have suffered with the fact that DC doesn’t realize how much potential Vic has. There are so many legit scientific articles about how cybernetics may be the next phased of human evolution. Cyborg could be a cutting edge hero linking humans and meta-humans (or gods) but DC wants him to be a robotic version of The Thing. So many of us on the Cyborg thread have lamented that Vic is being underutilized. The Walker/Reis Cyborg had an amazing design and actually enjoyed his abilities. But of course they downgraded him to being the tragic freak hero.

Flashpoint showed that Cyborg could potentially be the Superman-like hero of a world but he uses tech instead of alien abilities. Nanotechnology would be a great facet to explore. Would love to see a writer with knowledge of potential future tech take over the character.

[iron chimp]

The flipside is that if he isnt as advanced as other characters you can get some cool stories using that as a premise. Human intelligence vs AI, willpower, quest for upgrades, sacrifices we make in human existence in our current relentless quest /faith that science is answer, etc etc. Im sure people can think of better examples.

[Flash Gordon]

Anyone ever read HOTWIRE by Warren Ellis/Steve Pugh? That's how you handle a CYBORG joint.

There's just so much great stuff to do with Vic Stone!

[Marvell2100]

Maybe I've missed it but I haven't seen Vic use any chameleon tech, short range teleportation or some type of cloaking.

[Ascended]

Maybe I've missed it but I haven't seen Vic use any chameleon tech, short range teleportation or some type of cloaking.

He did use hologram/shapeshifting tech briefly in his solo book during....I guess it was the DCYOU volume?

Anyway....I don't think Vic needs any upgrades, writers just need to properly use what is already there. I mean, the guy's made out of prometheum (toughest substance on earth), his systems regenerate, and he's got (among other impressive technologies) a Mother Box for a heart; one of the most badass pieces of technology to ever grace the page of DC comics. Really, how are we going to upgrade that? Give him the Worlogog?

Visually I think Reis had the right idea. Vic needs to look like a fusion of man and machine, not just a dude in power armor or a guy with some robot parts. No, Vic Stone should be straight up both, combined in a way that is still pure fiction, because prosthetic technologies have come a long way since 1980.

As far as powers go, I think Vic's got everything he needs it just has to be utilized better. While he's fighting Despero with the League the guy should also be stopping Calculator from stealing nuclear codes, hacking street cameras to follow a kidnapping in China, altering authorities to a kid in Boston who's posted about shooting up his school, using Boom Tubes to dump ocean water on California wildfires, contacting Shazam about a robbery in Philly, and using hacked military drones to take down meta-human traffickers in the UK. He should be multi-tasking so much Clark and Barry wonder how he gets so much done in a day.

I think if Vic was handled right, he could be what heroism looks like in the post-Internet age of the 21st century. He should be doing everything Oracle used to do, taken to a modern day level, on top of being one of the most powerful beings in the DCU.

[Marblocks]

I haven't read much with Cyborg if I'm being completely honest so sorry if this has been done but I'd like to see a Cyborg that doesn't treat the cyborg aspect as a negative. Like what if there was a comic where he did a bunch of cool stuff and held house parties and stuff.

[married guy]

Call it heresy, but I liked Vic with the gold armour upgrade.
I thought it was a neat wrinkle.

[HandofPrometheus]

I'm all up for upgrades but he doesn't need one especially since the last time he got an upgrade (Mother Box origin) he started to become more of a plot device and less of a character which is still happening even now (DCeased for example). Not to mention the more you upgrade him the less human he becomes which will make him stuck in the same human vs machine storyline.

[Mr. White]

I was reading Rai #1 from Valiant, and I was really digging it and how cool they portrayed the lead characters who are cybernetic, and it got me thinking about how other robot/tech-based heroes, Cyberforce from Top Cow, Genos from One Punch Man, Ghost in the Shell, Metal Gear Solid etc, and it really just got me bothered with how outdated feeling Cyborg is technologically. He doesn't feel as quick, agile, precise, sophisticated or as powerful in comparison to a lot of other comtemporary cybernetic characters. he feels more like in-line with an old outdated idea of what a "super advanced" cyborg would be like.

so what do you think are some cool technological upgrades they could give Cyborg to up his cool factor. weapons, utilities, gizmos, gadgets, design choices, armor, nanotechnology, etc. whatever you can think of.

Sigh.
I opened this thinking there had been an article I missed which said Cyborg was finally getting an upgrade in the realms of some of your examples.
Color me disappointed...yet again.
I've genuinely given up on DC's (positive) intentions/ plans for Vic.
We did have a glimmer of hope in his short solo run a little while back.
But alas...

Also read Rai #1 and agree with everything in your post.

[Midnight_v]

I mentioned in the other thread that if the classic fight between GENOS and SAITAMA had between Cyborg and Superman It really could given Vic some popularity shift for the the better.
Now that I think of it... especially if they'd pulled it off in a popular medium like in the much maligned JL film.
It really could given Vic some popularity shift for the the better. There's a million videos of that fight set to every amv music people can vibe out to but it really shows how a high-tier cybernetic guy can fight a superman
and it goes further than stark vs thanos did.
Regardless, Vic cutting loose and fighting should look like that fight. . . with boom tubes.

Even if Saitama/Superman 'WIN' the fight a stand off of that type puts the question out there. Batman V. Superman? No Cyborg vs Superman.

If you're sick of hero vs hero battles.net ( and I know most of us are) there are a lot of superman weight class guys that Vic could "Worf" to illustrate it to. Hank Henshaw for example.

I think to myself that the Midnighter has this quantum computer brain, Angie the Engineer does everything, Prometheus literally uses *get this* laser discs to learn people fighting styles, and in the end, no one should be surprised when Vic has more information on them than brother eye does, along with more constantly running defeat YOU sub-routines that are incidentally running "just instinctively".

Which reminds me...
If vic were being written by someone like me.... Someone who CARES about the character, and has remotely heard of "Clarks 3rd Law" could/would show cyborg as being on the Tech is magic power axis, and possibly a planet tipper, but people likely have difficulty imagining that from how he's been depicted so far.

Finally, I know the JL movie was going to establish the big 3 epsecially WW/Supers in power level, but...

Superman and Cyborg have cataclysmic Fight
WW: *gasp* GREAT ZEUS! (or whatever god is okay, for her fans)
Movie Flash: "Oh no? Dodges things
Jason Mamoa: Ha! Look at him go! You sure we NEED the other guy?

... but as we saw he was still not in control of his armor for the sake of the plot:
VIC Don't! Victor Stop!
"Its my armors defense system. Its stronger since the interface! I can't control it!"

Ok. So what happens when he not only controls it but he's become a virtuoso with it.

My frustration is that I don't feel we're ever going to see that. Especially after that movie. In the toon-verse he's tied to robins teen tightly.

At this point... I'd have been happier if Leviathan had turned out to be Cyborg. not a fan of turning evil, but gimme SOMETHING, to show how badass he is.

[daBronzeBomma]

The key to what Cyborg is lies in the difference between what he has been in the past (a one-note team player who was ALWAYS obsessing over the man vs machine angle) and what he could be in the future (the alpha technologist of the DCU and the premiere solo Black DC super-hero).

The problem has always been how to bridge the gap.

That problem was absolutely exacerbated by the New52 retcon that dumped all his Pre- and Post- Crisis history with the Titans for an unearned spot as a "founding" member of the Justice League, causing a backlash (only some of it racial IMO, most of it just anti-retcon) that still affects Vic today.

So what's the solution?

My take: keep his Titans history (with all his friendships and experiences intact as DC does for Batman) and then have him graduate to the Justice League due him simply naturally outgrowing the Titans. Prior to said graduation, give him a solo series that lays the groundwork by giving him his own legit supporting cast, rogues gallery, settings, and refining of his powers.

And let him look human. Guys should want to look like him, not fear the whole castrated (no organic genatalia) thing.

Speaking of, has Cyborg actually ever been shown or implied to have had sex since getting his powers? If so, which issues?

[Ascended]

The key to what Cyborg is lies in the difference between what he has been in the past (a one-note team player who was ALWAYS obsessing over the man vs machine angle) and what he could be in the future (the alpha technologist of the DCU and the premiere solo Black DC super-hero).

The problem has always been how to bridge the gap.

That problem was absolutely exacerbated by the New52 retcon that dumped all his Pre- and Post- Crisis history with the Titans for an unearned spot as a "founding" member of the Justice League, causing a backlash (only some of it racial IMO, most of it just anti-retcon) that still affects Vic today.

So what's the solution?

I'm with you 100% until here. If we give Vic a solo, it's gotta be set in the present day (it'll be a hard enough sell without setting it in the past). If you dont, it means rewinding the clock on Vic back to his Titans days. Which means rewinding the clock for the other NTT. And I'm not down with that. Instead, I suggest a miniseries that covers the same ground. Treat it a little like American Alien; cover a lot of years and have each issue largely stand on its own. That can give readers the character arc we need to get Vic out of his rut, highlight the major moments of his history, introduce new threats, supporting cast members, settings.....basically it can provide the framework for his whole mythos.

Issue 1 can be the origin, issue 2 the NTT, issue 3 his time in space as....Cyberion or whatever the hell he was called......and the last issue or two can be the Mother Box upgrade and have him inducted into the League.

Then you launch the ongoing.

I agree that Vic needs his Titans history back in play (so do the other NTT), and he should graduate to the League from there. But I don't think we should revert him back to that stage just so DC can have another chance to do his graduation right. For better or worse, he's League now. Just write that, and do it right.

Speaking of, has Cyborg actually ever been shown or implied to have had sex since getting his powers? If so, which issues?

He has. I want to say he slept with Sarah in his first volume (might be wrong?), and with that female Cyborg in the second (definitely am not wrong). There might have been someone else too?

The Reis series, I think, established that he's....um, "all natural" down there. No castration.

[Zero Hunter]

All I care about is Vic at least looking more human as opposed to the walking tank with just a human head slapped on.

[Robotman]

The problem is that Vic has had some really cool upgrades but they’re immediately taken away from him by DC or other writers. In one of the issues of his solo (possibly written by Semper, I’m not totally sure) it was said that not only could he change back into Vic Stone but he could also change on a molecular level so his weight would match his appearance. Meaning he wouldn’t be a normal looking guy who weighed the same as a heavy robot. Shorty after that in an issue of Justice League written by Christopher Priest, who is usually a very creative writer, Cyborg states that when he changes back to Vic Stone it’s just a hologram and he’s still just Cyborg underneath. Ironically, by the end of that Justice League arc Cyborg has a lot of upgrades and an improved design. But of course it was all forgotten by DC and he was reverted to his regular boring look.