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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    Okay, but the point still stands, if we're counting everything that they have done themselves, of their own intellect power, Luthor has time travel too. I admit though, you are right in that his power steal isn't as good as Doom's.

    OP needs to clarify if we are literally counting everything for even the smallest time period or if there are any limits to what from their history can be included for the composites.
    Btw, There's always the Ovid mindswitch to look at. If Doom starts to lose to Lex, then he just switches minds with him.
    Last edited by Howard Allan; 12-01-2019 at 05:53 PM.

  2. #17
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post

    OP needs to clarify if we are literally counting everything for even the smallest time period or if there are any limits to what from their history can be included for the composites.
    Absolutely fair point, Jonathan.

    When I say "Composite comics version", my default is to exclude those one-off (intended for one storyline) power-ups that are clearly not repeated. Composite is used more for covering all main retcons and main canon reboots. Power-jacking in general is not what I'm going for, as both of these guys have gained ridiculous powers for a story here and there.

    TL,DR: has to be their own consistent power/skill/gear that is used repeatedly beyond a storyline. No power-jacking.

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    Absolutely fair point, Jonathan.

    When I say "Composite comics version", my default is to exclude those one-off (intended for one storyline) power-ups that are clearly not repeated. Composite is used more for covering all main retcons and main canon reboots. Power-jacking in general is not what I'm going for, as both of these guys have gained ridiculous powers for a story here and there.

    TL,DR: has to be their own consistent power/skill/gear that is used repeatedly beyond a storyline. No power-jacking.
    Not to belabour the point but the two bolded points are in contradiction when it comes to Doom, as power-jacking is one of his skills, ie Surfer, Galactus, Beyonder.

  4. #19
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by k von doom View Post
    Not to belabour the point but the two bolded points are in contradiction when it comes to Doom, as power-jacking is one of his skills, ie Surfer, Galactus, Beyonder.
    Power-jacking would require both prep and a separate uber-powerful victim, neither of which are available in the Arena for scenarios 1 and 2, and not applicable for scenario 4. Scenario 3 is already a clean win for Doom without resorting to power-jacking (which is a tacit admission from Doom that he lacks any alternative to beat said character ... which I doubt he would do in Lex's case in any event).

    The Ovoid Mind Transfer doesn't have much value here if it is a mere body swap, as their composite tech is not that similar in design but not that different in scale. Also, fairly sure Lex has enough will and awareness to resist it.

  5. #20
    Mighty Member Jonathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    Absolutely fair point, Jonathan.

    When I say "Composite comics version", my default is to exclude those one-off (intended for one storyline) power-ups that are clearly not repeated. Composite is used more for covering all main retcons and main canon reboots. Power-jacking in general is not what I'm going for, as both of these guys have gained ridiculous powers for a story here and there.

    TL,DR: has to be their own consistent power/skill/gear that is used repeatedly beyond a storyline. No power-jacking.
    Thank you, that makes sense. It does put Luthor in a disadvantage in some of those rounds though, seeing as how time travel tech is far more of a defining part of Doom's available tech than his. However, when it comes to power armor vs power armor, Lex clearly has the superior version. But all in all, I'll concede that with equal prep time, Doom is probably the winner more times than not.

  6. #21
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    Also, fairly sure Lex has enough will and awareness to resist it.
    I really doubt he does.
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  7. #22
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    I really doubt he does.
    Why? Lex had a lot of faults, but being weak- willed isn't one of thenm.

    Also, Lex's head and face and protected by a force field in his warsuit. Does that not disrupt the Ovoid mind Transfer?

    And again, AFAIK the Ovoid Mind Transfer doesn't bestow any new knowledge to the user. It just doesn't seem like a technique Doom would bother with against a foe he deemed equal to or lesser than himself.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    Why? Lex had a lot of faults, but being weak- willed isn't one of thenm.

    Also, Lex's head and face and protected by a force field in his warsuit. Does that not disrupt the Ovoid mind Transfer?

    And again, AFAIK the Ovoid Mind Transfer doesn't bestow any new knowledge to the user. It just doesn't seem like a technique Doom would bother with against a foe he deemed equal to or lesser than himself.
    As for "would Doom do it to a lesser being?" Well, he's done it before.

    As for "Lex isn't weak willed": It has nothing to do with being weak willed: Doom has done it to some decently strong-willed folks over time.

    If Doom was there and saw that Lex was wearing a suit of armor that would tear him apart, I could easily see Doom doing the transfer, KO'ing his own body, peeling Lex's body out of it's own armor, then transferring back.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;"
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    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."

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    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics."
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  9. #24
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    Is that power common knowledge? Because Lex is smart enough to avoid eye-contact if it is.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    Is that power common knowledge? Because Lex is smart enough to avoid eye-contact if it is.
    it's been in Dooms' powerset for decades.

  11. #26
    Astonishing Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    Is that power common knowledge? Because Lex is smart enough to avoid eye-contact if it is.
    I don't think that it is common knowledge that Doom can do the Ovoid mind switch. He has used the ability rarely, and it isn't the sort of thing that he would boast about while using it. And it isn't a power that is visible or obvious to onlookers. When Doom used the mind transfer to avoid certain death in FF #260, even Reed assumed he was dead and nobody considered the possibility that he might have done the mind transfer with a spectator.

  12. #27
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    Is that power common knowledge? Because Lex is smart enough to avoid eye-contact if it is.
    Have you ever tried to fight while avoiding looking at your foe? It's not easy - that alone might be enough to let Doom win, even fights he otherwise could not win.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;"
    - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."

    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics."
    -Captain Morgan

  13. #28
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    As for "would Doom do it to a lesser being?" Well, he's done it before.

    As for "Lex isn't weak willed": It has nothing to do with being weak willed: Doom has done it to some decently strong-willed folks over time.

    If Doom was there and saw that Lex was wearing a suit of armor that would tear him apart, I could easily see Doom doing the transfer, KO'ing his own body, peeling Lex's body out of it's own armor, then transferring back.

    You haven't addressed the fact that Luthor still has a force field over his head and face and eyes. If this Ovoid mind Transfer can break through force fields, then it's a freaking macguffin.

    Is there evidence of the OMT breaking through force fields?

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    Round 5: Lex totally wins the hair-pulling fight.

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    You haven't addressed the fact that Luthor still has a force field over his head and face and eyes. If this Ovoid mind Transfer can break through force fields, then it's a freaking macguffin.

    Is there evidence of the OMT breaking through force fields?
    Have those forcefields ever protected against psychic attacks? Or acted as psi blockers? Because it's in that genre of move despite the eye contact thing.

    Also, presumably Lex can see things behind his shields, so we know that light and other non destructive wavelengths of energy seem to pass through just fine.

    Edit: "Rock of Ages" logic ftw! :P
    Last edited by The Arbiter; 12-03-2019 at 01:50 PM.
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