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  1. #1

    Default The Shrike vs. The Thanos Imperative

    I was going to make a "Shrike vs marvel aliens" thread in the same vein as my other recent Shrike scenarios (Shi'ar, Kree, skrull etc) but then I figured that thread would quickly transform into "Shrike v Gladiator" so I figure I would just cut the line and jump straight to the big guns of those factions.

    Only the folks in the attached picture are involved in the fight. Arena. 616. Remove Surfer* from the line up and replace him with... I dunno, Moondragon.

    *I actually think Surfer solos the Shrike is my reasoning.

    Bonus: Just Gladiator.

    Double Bonus: Add Norrin to the mix cuz y not lolz.
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  2. #2
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Shrike can trivially solo Ronan, Moondragon. Speed plus teleportation plus can just make with the slicey dicey..

    Shrike ought to be able to dump Bill and Quasar and Rich into the big bang or something. Buuuuut... that's an argument we've had on the board: can the Shrike time and space dump without going with the vic? I think so, but it's never really an issue in the series.

    If he can do that, he ought to be able to do it to Glads as well, but... it's just never really shown.

    The Shrike doesn't really have feats for directly hurting clear class 100s. It messes up Nemes-clones, but I don't think we can stick them at high-end class 100 durability - though their feats are salutatory. Ignoring 50000g acceleration, trivially slicing through "uncuttable" things with their phaseshifted hands, Nemes basically not being damaged by the Raphael's lance, etc.

    The Nemes-things are tougher then Swiss Guard, and those are tough enough to trivially no-sell nukes. But they never have to take a continent-buster in the face or anything.
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  3. #3

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    The BFR strategy is contentious for sure, but I thought his damage output was pretty well figured out by now?

    Nemes took a sustained blast from the Raphael as you noted. Archangel class Pax ships can one shot Hegemony era Torchships which hide inside stars as a battle tactic.
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    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    The BFR strategy is contentious for sure, but I thought his damage output was pretty well figured out by now?

    Nemes took a sustained blast from the Raphael as you noted. Archangel class Pax ships can one shot Hegemony era Torchships which hide inside stars as a battle tactic.
    She did, but that was the first Raphael, and it was NOT one of the Archangel-class battleships we see later in the series, so we can't handwave the equivalency. To be fair, it's definitely a powerful weapon.

    I mean, I'm not saying that it's feats are below class 100, but there's a pretty big range there, and Glads and Surfer are on the fairly high end of that range. I just don't know if Shrike has the oomph to deal with them. If it can hurt them, it's probably going to to win this, because he's got equivalent speed PLUS teleportation and insane control of time.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;"
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    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."

    - Sharpandpointies

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    Astonishing Member Slade1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    She did, but that was the first Raphael, and it was NOT one of the Archangel-class battleships we see later in the series, so we can't handwave the equivalency. To be fair, it's definitely a powerful weapon.

    I mean, I'm not saying that it's feats are below class 100, but there's a pretty big range there, and Glads and Surfer are on the fairly high end of that range. I just don't know if Shrike has the oomph to deal with them. If it can hurt them, it's probably going to to win this, because he's got equivalent speed PLUS teleportation and insane control of time.
    Can't Norrin just transmute it if the other's keep it busy?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slade1 View Post
    Can't Norrin just transmute it if the other's keep it busy?
    Norrin can possibly solo the thing. He's only in the bonus scenario.
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  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Slade1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Norrin can possibly solo the thing. He's only in the bonus scenario.
    Ah, right.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    She did, but that was the first Raphael, and it was NOT one of the Archangel-class battleships we see later in the series, so we can't handwave the equivalency. To be fair, it's definitely a powerful weapon.

    I mean, I'm not saying that it's feats are below class 100, but there's a pretty big range there, and Glads and Surfer are on the fairly high end of that range. I just don't know if Shrike has the oomph to deal with them. If it can hurt them, it's probably going to to win this, because he's got equivalent speed PLUS teleportation and insane control of time.
    Both ships were classified Archangel. The first Raphael may have been the prototype model but the biggest difference between them seems to be the larger crew capacity and added Deathbeam brain scramblers.

    FORCE era /hand held/ weapons from nearly 300 years earlier could put out heat "as hot as a sun" and carve a perfect cylinder into 2 kilometers of granite with electron pulses. That level of weapon can't even hurt Swiss Guard foot soldiers. That's the gap that's widened in those 300 years.

    The first Raphael was the best ship in the fleet at the time. More importantly, De Soya specifically orders ALL extra power from every other ship system to be transferred to weapons before blasting Nemes. He literally overclocks and over charges the beam. I'm cool with saying it could have one shot Hegemony Torchships as well.

    The Shrike also crippled one of those same Torchships in orbit when De Soya first deploys at the Time Tombs.

    Can the Shrike hit as hard as Gladiator? Maybe not. Can he hurt Gladiator? Yeah, imo he can. Not one shot him or anything, but I don't think he could be ignored either.

    My biggest thing is can Shrike navigate around the dude's heat vision and wear him down before he himself ends up taking damage.
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  9. #9
    Death of Time Cronus's Avatar
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    I know the Shrike is crazy fast, just not familiar enough with his damage output or durability. Without some heavy duty feats from Shrike in those areas, I'm inclined to lean toward the team, Gladiator MVP.
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  10. #10
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Both ships were classified Archangel. The first Raphael may have been the prototype model but the biggest difference between them seems to be the larger crew capacity and added Deathbeam brain scramblers.

    FORCE era /hand held/ weapons from nearly 300 years earlier could put out heat "as hot as a sun" and carve a perfect cylinder into 2 kilometers of granite with electron pulses. That level of weapon can't even hurt Swiss Guard foot soldiers. That's the gap that's widened in those 300 years.

    The first Raphael was the best ship in the fleet at the time. More importantly, De Soya specifically orders ALL extra power from every other ship system to be transferred to weapons before blasting Nemes. He literally overclocks and over charges the beam. I'm cool with saying it could have one shot Hegemony Torchships as well.

    The Shrike also crippled one of those same Torchships in orbit when De Soya first deploys at the Time Tombs.

    Can the Shrike hit as hard as Gladiator? Maybe not. Can he hurt Gladiator? Yeah, imo he can. Not one shot him or anything, but I don't think he could be ignored either.

    My biggest thing is can Shrike navigate around the dude's heat vision and wear him down before he himself ends up taking damage.
    I'm sold. I've actually been sold up on a character I generally support.

    Well, in that case, I generally give the advantage to the guy who can hurt the other and move better than the other. If it was just two dudes with superspeed who can each likely hurt the other, I'd give the edge to the one with a better range game. But here, the one without the eye beams has teleportation and time manipulation. Shrike can probably put Glads into the path of his own heat vision if it so desires, but all he'll really have to do is use his equal speed plus teleportation to simply insert his spikes through the guy's throat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cronus View Post
    I know the Shrike is crazy fast, just not familiar enough with his damage output or durability. Without some heavy duty feats from Shrike in those areas, I'm inclined to lean toward the team, Gladiator MVP.
    For damage output, if you just read what we put above between us you have:

    Shrike literally OSKOs an artificial creature who sits, undamaged but immobilized, through a minute-long bombardment of a beam weapon that can instantly one-shot spaceships that use "hiding undamaged inside a star" as a valid combat tactic. Shrike can rip into similar creatures - they are all "twins" born in labs - shredding their "impenetrable" force-fields, and casually rips the head off of one.

    Shrike also casually disables/destroys spaceships that are as or more durable than the ship above.

    As also mentioned above, the FORCE combat rifles of 273 years earlier can burn a perfect hole through 2 km of granite, and carry nukes and all kinds of other nonsense. Those weapons are incapable of scratching the paint on Pax-era Swiss Guard troopers' armor. The Shrike rips through this stuff without pausing, and literally disects thousands of these guys in a span of moments, meticulously carving out kilometers of microscopic fibers from each and not missing a single strand of those fillaments from any of them. Those weapons also, when used on the Shrike himself, do no damage at all.

    It's pretty good, is what that means.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;"
    - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."

    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics."
    -Captain Morgan

  11. #11
    Death of Time Cronus's Avatar
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    That is impressive. So you would place the Shrike in Silver Surfer/Gladiator territory as far as damage output and durability? If so, seems Gladiator would be as likely to lose as win and Norrin having to resort to esoterics to put Shrike down.
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cronus View Post
    That is impressive. So you would place the Shrike in Silver Surfer/Gladiator territory as far as damage output and durability? If so, seems Gladiator would be as likely to lose as win and Norrin having to resort to esoterics to put Shrike down.
    Norrin should take the Shrike down because of *points at Sentry thread* transmutation. Shrike is specifically shown to be vulnerable to the stuff. Brawne Lamia manages to turn a Shrike (long story- Shrike can make copies) into glass and shatter it with some form of transmutation or reality warping.

    But yeah, generally I'm cool with putting Shrike in the same physicality department as Glads or thereabouts.
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  13. #13
    Death of Time Cronus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Norrin should take the Shrike down because of *points at Sentry thread* transmutation. Shrike is specifically shown to be vulnerable to the stuff. Brawne Lamia manages to turn a Shrike (long story- Shrike can make copies) into glass and shatter it with some form of transmutation or reality warping.

    But yeah, generally I'm cool with putting Shrike in the same physicality department as Glads or thereabouts.
    Gotta read those books. Sound amazing.
    "I know you're in there Banner. I'll get you out!"
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    "You said clear."
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  14. #14
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    I love them, I'm a pretty big fan of all of Simmons' scifi or horror stuff.

    Shrike is kind of a plot device, of course. It's clearly shown in some scenes to be at a certain level, and then underperforms that level in others. And sometimes it's DEFINITELY to further the plot.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;"
    - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."

    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics."
    -Captain Morgan

  15. #15
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    I'm also add that Simmons often goes against what is established in his universe/narrative convention in favour of what he thinks is poetic.

    It's very beautiful often but also can lead to very strange sequences.
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