Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
This isn't an equivalent case to Elsa in terms of the logic. Magneto has an extensive library of feats accrued over decades that indicate that he has enhanced reflexes of some type. The paucity of feats outweighs the traditional presentation.

Elsa doesn't have anything like that to make the same kind of case.



If Elsa had made any kind of conscious decision to catch the arrow, even throwing a hand up in a casting motion that implied intent, I would be willing to be more open to the idea. However, the actual in-text events show her flinching away from the arrow with her eyes closed and being genuinely shocked that the arrow has been caught afterwards.

Thus this feat does not, in my view of the argument, make a strong enough case to claim that Elsa herself has any kind of above human combat reflexes. You can make that argument if you want, this is a debate forum after all, but it is a paper thin argument and I personally would not buy it.

Heck, we know her powers can impart sentience and can operate outside of her direct control (ice golems, Olaf). There are many moments in the film where her powers operate without her conscious choice, it's literally the premise of the film with her making a country-wide ice storm unintentionally. The arrow catch could just as easily argue be another aspect of her powers operating outside of her conscious control, some form of automated defence or similar.

Please note, I'm not /making/ this argument specifically but pointing out that there are other interpretations of this individual feat. Personally, I find the above explanation a bit more plausible than granting Elsa enhanced reflexes of said singular feat.

TL;DR: The feat, as viewed as a speed feat, is not good enough to claim that Elsa has any kind of enhanced reflexes without some kind of corroboration either in terms of other feats or character presentation. Elsa has neither, so I don't agree with your argument.



I'm not really commenting on the fight either. My interest is about the viability of the feat for Elsa.
Just because it's a mostly respectful debate with someone I respect, I'll keep going.

1. With what you stip to there, that Elsa automatically defends herself against an incoming attack by freezing it, shows that, even if she's not consciously doing it, her POWERS include some kind of autodefense that work at significantly-faster-than-normal-human speeds. And again, for this particular situation, it makes trying to punch her in the schnozz a really bad idea.

2. I would also posit that Elsa realizes that she's in trouble, but she is so inexperienced with her abilities that she has no idea that she can do what she did there. She's also never been shot at in her life. So yeah, she has a normal human flinch reaction away from the bolt. But she clearly also manifests her powers to defend herself, and again, does it basically instinctively, and faster then the already-fired bolt can cross the distance.

3. I'd like you to clarify your argument against her repeating what we actually see on screen. If you are arguing that she's presented specifically and explicitly as someone with normal reactions, I'd like for you to point out where. If you're arguing that she can't be somewhat quicker than normal with her powers because it's only shown once, well, I'd ask to see the times where she either FAILS to act quickly with her powers, or she's explicitly shown not to be quick with powers. Because it seems like you are either arguing that the feat is an outlier, but an outlier needs to have contrary evidence and there isn't any of that, or that it's, I dunno, an unrepeatable accident, and again, that's not really shown by the material.


Basically, I don't think the things exist to show that she can't consistently do what she does the only time she has to: she really only has the one speed/combat feat. And I agree that it's not amazing or super ultra dominant and conclusive, but it's all we have.