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  1. #1
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Default Character who gained or lost the most in reboot?

    I'm looking at characters who were changed a lot in a reboot (Jason Todd, Hawkman and Hawkwoman, Donna Troy, Tim Drake, Billy Batson, Cyborg, etc.). Who are some that you think gained/lost the most by being given a new backstory, characterization, power set, or look as part of a larger reboot effort? Not really talking about becoming more or less powerful or even popular, but more or less interesting/enjoyable to you personally.

    Now, for my own evaluations, I'm not including the characters that were ceased to exist (even temporarily) with a reboot. Not sure if we should count those who were previously published by others.

    I'll start with just a couple characters.

    Donna Troy is an easy one, because she went downhill after COIE, but I actually don't think the new backstory was the problem. Not sticking to it was a problem that came later. The NTT in general went downhill, and the others weren't effected by this change. Probably doesn't hurt that I actually didn't like her original backstory anyway, because it did not time out at all with publication history and when Robin debuted and I never liked the retconning of golden age Batman, WW, and Superman as separate individuals from their silver-age versions. So, while I think Donna lost a ton, I don't think the reboot changes were really responsible for that loss.

    There's a more split opinion on the Hawks. While Hawkworld wasn't part of COIE, it's kind of bundled-together for me, and so I do count them. A loss for me. I very much preferred the silver-and-bronze-age space cops version. The tricky part is whether you consider their post-COIE selves the same people as their pre-COIE selves and whether that's the same as their golden age selves. If they are the same characters, does the general beginning of the silver age qualify for the "as part of a larger reboot effort"? Anyway, they have plenty of reboot opportunities that fans can think bad or good. So for me, the pure space cops version wins.

  2. #2
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    When I saw the thread title, I immediately thought of Donna Troy and the Hawks. I'm in complete agreement with you.

  3. #3
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    Which reboot are we talking about New 52 or Rebirth's pseudo reboot?

  4. #4
    Incredible Member Blue22's Avatar
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    The Teen Titans as a whole have suffered the most from both the New 52 and Rebirth. Though the original and NTT members have gotten it the worst (all these years and they still don't know what the fuck they're doing with Gar and Raven). It's really depressing, as a long time Titans fan. Especially when Rebirth looked like it was on track to fixing the mistakes that the New 52 made.
    Last edited by Blue22; 12-03-2019 at 08:48 PM.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Aquaman was a huge beneficiary of the New 52 reboot. It cleaned up his origin and cast and really helped set the stage for his current come back.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    Aquaman and Mera gained the most out of any other character from the New 52. Tula to some regard too.

    Aqualad gained and lost at the same time imo. His old origin was more rich and satisfying but disregarded his mother while his new one propped up his mother more and established a better family dynamic but ruined his heritage and family succession.

    Bronze Tiger lost a lot from New-52. He lost his connections to the whole DCU and lost his claim to being field leader for the Suicide Squad. Now it's Harley and Deathstroke taking all the glory. Kinda fine with this though since he outgrew it and isn't part of terrible stories.

    Superman gained the most post-crisis. I just loved this era for him. Probably the best new take on any character ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    The Teen Titans a whole have suffered the most from both the New 52 and Rebirth. Though the original and NTT members have gotten it the worst (all these years and they still don't know what the fuck they're doing with Gar and Raven). It's really depressing, as a long time Titans fan. Especially when Rebirth looked like it was on track to fixing the mistakes that the New 52 made.
    Agreed. Cyborg, Raven, Beast Boy, Donna, and Starfire (imo) were RUINED. I can't say much on Jericho because I don't read Deathstroke and haven't read any of his Post-Flashpint comics.

  7. #7
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    Wonder Woman, Cassandra Cain, the Birds of Prey and the Titans.

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofPrometheus View Post

    Aqualad gained and lost at the same time imo. His old origin was more rich and satisfying but disregarded his mother while his new one propped up his mother more and established a better family dynamic but ruined his heritage and family succession.
    Could you elaborate on what you mean on the last bit please?

    Bronze Tiger lost a lot from New-52. He lost his connections to the whole DCU and lost his claim to being field leader for the Suicide Squad. Now it's Harley and Deathstroke taking all the glory. Kinda fine with this though since he outgrew it and isn't part of terrible stories.
    Wait, did you mean Deadshot?

    The Squad is about to have new life breathed into it by Tom Taylor. Seems like a bad time for him to no longer be connected to them.

  8. #8
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    JSA, Infinity Inc, and the rest of Earth 2 people lost the most with COIE and New 52 by the virtue of having their entire histories/characters not even existing.

    Aquaman IMO gained the most from New 52. Bunn's run is the only one that I'd call not okay or good and even that was like 10 issues long.

  9. #9
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    Which reboot are we talking about New 52 or Rebirth's pseudo reboot?
    Any of them. Any significant universe-rebooting sort of event.

    Aquaman was a huge beneficiary of the New 52 reboot. It cleaned up his origin and cast and really helped set the stage for his current come back.
    Mera, definitely. And I like this Aquaman backstory so much better than the Orin one. I am sad about the loss of the father/son dynamic with Garth, though. Once upon a time that was a very important dynamic. I understand it was re-retconned later and Garth was his ward again, but I haven't really noticed them to interact much. But I've only picked up the comic again recently. I'm very "meh" on Atlantean politics (not interested in politics of fictional kingdoms anyway, but Atlantis often seems to have an endless cycle of Arthur losing and regaining throne and some other issues that really annoy me), but I like what I've seen of the non-politcal parts of the comics.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 12-03-2019 at 05:25 AM.

  10. #10
    Incredible Member LP22's Avatar
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    Talkin bout those who gained Jason Todd comes to mind for sure swamp and constantine as well and Aquaman basically become an A-list character because of the new 52.

  11. #11
    Traveler of omniverses Thor-Ul's Avatar
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    STeve Trevor was one of the characters who gained a lot with the New52 reboot. He started as a boyfriend and post crisis he was changed into a father figure and written out of Wonder Woman book. But in New52, he was transformed into a Nick Fury esque character, with his own SHIELD included.
    Internet Rule 14: Do not argue with trolls it means they win.

  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Aquaman and Billy Batson benefited from the New 52.

    Dick's generation of Titans and the BOP were hurt by the New 52.

    Superman was hurt by the post-Crisis changes. Short term success that had long term issues. I will not speak ill of the Triangle Era since I've read so little of it, but the Byrne comics were awful.
    He both benefited and was hurt by the New 52 (great first run, directionless mess afterwards).

    Wonder Woman both benefited and was harmed long term by COIE. Very hurt by the New 52. Both contributed to the lack of stability in her mythos and history, though the latter was worse due to the Amazons and Zeus origin.

    Donna Troy was epically hurt by COIE. yeah her first new origin was ok and they should have stuck with it compared to the subsequent ones, but it still sucked compared to her pre-COIE one. There is a reason for "Who is Donna Troy?" being considered a classic while "Who is Wonder Girl?" is not.

    The Hawks have been a nightmare since the two Earths were merged.

  13. #13
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    Batman arguably gained a lot from the Post-COIE reboot. He had the best of both worlds - the reboot allowed him to retain the vast majority of his history while tonally reinventing the character and his world and setting the stage for him to become the biggest superhero (and arguably biggest pop-cultural) brand!

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Superman, obvs. Every time there's a reboot, he gets another origin. It's become a joke now. No one even knows what his current one is.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  15. #15
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Batman arguably gained a lot from the Post-COIE reboot. He had the best of both worlds - the reboot allowed him to retain the vast majority of his history while tonally reinventing the character and his world and setting the stage for him to become the biggest superhero (and arguably biggest pop-cultural) brand!
    Not to me - like I said, I was asking about personal enjoyment, not popularity. And I much prefer bronze age Batman to the later version. I think he's mean to colleagues (most aren't even friends anymore), emotionally abusive to his Batfam, and I find his extreme emotional damage tedious. I much preferred the healthier family/friend dynamics of earlier (by the bronze age there was more developed characterization and interpersonal dynamics than earlier years). Also before he was Batgod and other heroes were diminished to further glorify. I know my version isn't the popular one, but for personal enjoyment, those are my feelings.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 12-03-2019 at 11:59 AM.

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