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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    At this point how can you even argue that Cyborg should be disassembled and thrown into the sun. He is so lost and damaged as a character.
    Because no one would make this argument about a character they like no matter how badly they are screwed up by the writing. Anyone who is making this argument about Cyborg likely had issues with him long before the New 52.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 12-05-2019 at 06:27 PM.

  2. #62
    Astonishing Member HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    You guys are going to have to explain this "Marvelization" of Superman to me because Byrne's run just felt like a regular run to me. I didn't read his pre-crisis stories but I still will like to understand.

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I thought it already got brought back? That backstory definitely matters to me. And him being bffs with Gar.
    It's up in the air honestly. We really have no idea if NTT happened.

  4. #64
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Well I'm basing it off the general mentality that they felt they needed to do COIE in part to streamline things.
    Well, that was the cover story for DC's attempt to jump start their ailing business, at any rate.
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  5. #65
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandofPrometheus View Post
    It's up in the air honestly. We really have no idea if NTT happened.
    Okay. I thought we'd seen some flashback with him there.

  6. #66
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Okay. I thought we'd seen some flashback with him there.
    In early Justice League Odyssey, Starfire did refer to him as a friend. Can't remember if it was "old friend" though.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandofPrometheus View Post
    It's up in the air honestly. We really have no idea if NTT happened.
    Some bastardized version of the NTT happened. Cyborg seems to have some sort of relationship with Wally as per Flash War, for instance. And Magenta...exists, a character created in NTT and who has memories of NTT stuff.

    So chances are it's more akin to how pre-flashpoint batman and GL happened, where it happened just enough to let them reference stuff from it they want to keep and say other stuff didn't happen.

  8. #68
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Some bastardized version of the NTT happened. Cyborg seems to have some sort of relationship with Wally as per Flash War, for instance. And Magenta...exists, a character created in NTT and who has memories of NTT stuff.

    So chances are it's more akin to how pre-flashpoint batman and GL happened, where it happened just enough to let them reference stuff from it they want to keep and say other stuff didn't happen.
    They interacted for a bit, but I remember Cyborg just running a diagnostic on Wally after his freakout then a close, personal, moment.

    I forget if Wally acted like they knew each other and Vic didn't get it.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Some bastardized version of the NTT happened. Cyborg seems to have some sort of relationship with Wally as per Flash War, for instance. And Magenta...exists, a character created in NTT and who has memories of NTT stuff.

    So chances are it's more akin to how pre-flashpoint batman and GL happened, where it happened just enough to let them reference stuff from it they want to keep and say other stuff didn't happen.
    the only nod to wally and cyborg having any relationship was wally remembering vic was all gold at one point, which was shown as wally having some kind of mental episode, other than that there was nothing else in their dialogue that suggested any kind of actual relationship between them in their continutity.

  10. #70
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    For Jason Todd (one of the few to overall benefit from New52), he was able to get a more proper arc after Under the Red Hood compared to pre-Flashpoint, that kept him in character. He's still had clashes with the rest of the Bats at times, but he was no supervillain either.

  11. #71
    Fantastic Member mikelmcknight72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Not to me - like I said, I was asking about personal enjoyment, not popularity. And I much prefer bronze age Batman to the later version. I think he's mean to colleagues (most aren't even friends anymore), emotionally abusive to his Batfam, and I find his extreme emotional damage tedious. I much preferred the healthier family/friend dynamics of earlier (by the bronze age there was more developed characterization and interpersonal dynamics than earlier years). Also before he was Batgod and other heroes were diminished to further glorify. I know my version isn't the popular one, but for personal enjoyment, those are my feelings.
    That is my preferred version too. Somewhat grim, somewhat brooding, but far better adjusted than the post Flashpoint take.

  12. #72
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    In early Justice League Odyssey, Starfire did refer to him as a friend. Can't remember if it was "old friend" though.
    It was "old friend" - but just "friend" would be sufficient. Having starred in Red Hood's book and then her own solo in New 52, Starfire wasn't a Titan until Rebirth. Cyborg being on Justice League and having his origin in the first arc meant he was never a Titan either. Which means they didn't know each other at all. Both got their past histories restored in the No Justice mini-series, which established that Martian Manhunter and not Cyborg was a JL founder. Superman Reborn was probably the actual trigger, and we can handwave Victor's origin in New 52 JL as just being an upgrade (he didn't have the Mother Box tech until then, did he?). Of course, not all of New 52 JL remains canon. Anything involving the Super Wonder romance is definitely gone.
    Last edited by Digifiend; 12-07-2019 at 09:57 PM.
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadman322 View Post
    the only nod to wally and cyborg having any relationship was wally remembering vic was all gold at one point, which was shown as wally having some kind of mental episode, other than that there was nothing else in their dialogue that suggested any kind of actual relationship between them in their continutity.
    Sure, fine, the Magenta thing still stands.

  14. #74
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Regarding Cyborg - I know from an old post that Nightwing: The New Order #4 showed Cyborg as a member of the Titans when Starfire came to earth. I know that it was in flashback from a "future." But I don't know how removed that comic is from mainstream - whether it was a possible future of this universe or just a total AU future (with AU past events before present).

  15. #75
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    It is a total AU. It's built on a lot of fundamental differences from the regular universe.

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