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  1. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomoSuperior View Post
    This issue was bad on so many levels.
    Judging from all the praise in these forums, I guess ageism is now the acceptable prejudice.
    Other than that, why are Krakoa's flowers being grown in the Savage Land?
    Wouldn't that make them Savage Land flowers?
    I was thinking the same, if the Krakoan flowers can only be cultivated in the Savage land that fact could open the door to the goverments of the world declare them patrimony of the humanity as the Savage Land is a protected Wild life space in the MU, that belongs to all the humanity ( or all the world).

    And of course that would mean that the mutants are polluting an ecosystem for their own bussines.

  2. #392
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    I found this issue hilarious. This thread shows Emma fans have a sense of humour.

    Can't wait for Hordeculture to come for Storm and Jean. Imagine the forum breaking if the butthurt already exhibited in this thread is to go by anything. Mama Opal is going to give someone a beating
    Last edited by ExodusCloak; 12-05-2019 at 04:45 PM.

  3. #393

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Quiet Councilor View Post
    And his dialogue is some of the worst in the business. Nobody’s perfect.
    No, that's Hickman. Claremont had great dialogue in his hey-day!

  4. #394
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    I think that Fubar and I want character development and character relationships being developed instead of vague hints about a polyamori that doesn't suit these characters.

    ignore isn't a option
    Look. We all know surely that character “development” is not what Hickman does. That doesn’t mean he is doing anything wrong. 90% of comics are devoid of that. Character development is the type of thing we see in solo books. Team books or in this case anthologised books are almost universally plot driven. This is never going to be Astro City for the X-Men. Although if Busiek were available I would love a Krakoa Island equivalent.

    This is categorically not the same as being devoid of character. Hickman has never had any problem with character portrayal. What he does do is put the plot first and occasionally bend characters to his plot. Again, that is perfectly normal for such a book in this medium.

    Much has been made of this being what he did in his Avengers run. Actually this is what he did in his Fantastic Four run. He focused on world building at a scale that we have not seen since. If he does that here this could be the most important era for decades for the X-Men. Why complain about a style choice, when the stakes are so much higher?
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 12-05-2019 at 04:50 PM.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  5. #395
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Look. We all know surely that character “development” is not what Hickman does. That doesn’t mean he is doing anything wrong. 90% of comics are devoid of that. Character development is the type of thing we see in solo books. Team books or in this case anthologised books are almost universally plot driven.

    This is categorically not the same as being devoid of character. Hickman has never had any problem with character portrayal. What he does do is put the plot first and occasionally bend characters to his plot. Again, that is perfectly normal for such a book in this medium.
    Funny bc the X-men team books used to be full of character development. Only a few heroes actually got solos, yet the rest still managed to have character development in the team books where they written

  6. #396
    Amazing Member Chessboxer's Avatar
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    I'm thinking Hordeculture probably might eventually become allies with Xmen. They both have a mutual antagonist in humans, and hordeculture can only enhance Krakoan biotechnology with their wealth of knowledge. They already know how to hack Krakoan portals. I would not be surprised to see them working together, in a 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' capacity.

  7. #397
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Hordeculture want to wipe everything out. They're also closer to transhuman or whatever the next step in human/machine hybrids mentioned in hox.

    They've better tech then Orchis

  8. #398
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Funny bc the X-men team books used to be full of character development. Only a few heroes actually got solos, yet the rest still managed to have character development in the team books where they written
    I totally disagree. Soap opera is not character development. That is just melodrama. It is often called ‘situation driven’ or ‘arena driven’ but I call it unfocused writing.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 12-05-2019 at 05:15 PM.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  9. #399
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomoSuperior View Post
    This issue was bad on so many levels.
    Judging from all the praise in these forums, I guess ageism is now the acceptable prejudice.
    Other than that, why are Krakoa's flowers being grown in the Savage Land?
    Wouldn't that make them Savage Land flowers?
    Now that you mention it, yeah, that's really weird.

    Claremont was much, much better about balancing character work with plot seeds. Plus he did both while telling a coherent story between issues. Sometimes it could be weird, but there was still flow between issues. Here its been LOOK, ARRAKO! LOOK, THE SAVAGE LAND! How? Why? No reason. Don't worry, this will matter in 8 months for a miniseries coming out then!

  10. #400
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Look. We all know surely that character “development” is not what Hickman does. That doesn’t mean he is doing anything wrong. 90% of comics are devoid of that. Character development is the type of thing we see in solo books. Team books or in this case anthologised books are almost universally plot driven. This is never going to be Astro City for the X-Men. Although if Busiek were available I would love a Krakoa Island equivalent.

    This is categorically not the same as being devoid of character. Hickman has never had any problem with character portrayal. What he does do is put the plot first and occasionally bend characters to his plot. Again, that is perfectly normal for such a book in this medium.

    Much has been made of this being what he did in his Avengers run. Actually this is what he did in his Fantastic Four run. He focused on world building at a scale that we have not seen since. If he does that here this could be the most important era for decades for the X-Men. Why complain about a style choice, when the stakes are so much higher?
    The best comics have some character development. That is why they are remembered

    even if i discount the character development, i would like one shots to be better written. Hickman wrote a pretty fun one on FF when Franklin went to a toy store. It was a good all ages issue. X-men #3 wasn't really good.

    I don't believe montly or bi-monthly issues should had to be sacrificed to have a good run

    He had 12 issues of HOXPOX to build the world.

  11. #401
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    X-Men was starved for new good world building more so then character development. Though just because the focus is on one thing, doesn't mean there is no character development. Its just subtle and in subtext. That being said Hickman takes liberties with his characters to get them where he needs them to be for his story, but if the story is good enough you can get away with it.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 12-05-2019 at 10:22 PM.

  12. #402
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    I totally disagree. Soap opera is not character development. That is just melodrama. It is often called ‘situation driven’ or ‘arena driven’ but I call it unfocused writing.
    Wow. So you really thought the likes of Storm, Rogue, Cyclops, Kitty and most of the classic heroes outside of Wolverine did not get character development in Claremont's iconic run? Emma never got any since she joined the X-men in Morrison's run or heck even Gen X? No development for Kurt over in Excalibur? Havok and Polaris in X-Factor? Cyclops got no character development in the deciMation/Utopia era? None for Psylocke in Uncanny X-Force?
    Last edited by Havok83; 12-05-2019 at 05:54 PM.

  13. #403
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    The best comics have some character development. That is why they are remembered.
    We need to be careful with definitions here. I would call character development an expression of character such that we can see them more clearly. Hickman does this perfectly well. You seem to be referring to character arcs and your preference does not a rule make.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  14. #404
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Wow. So you really thought the likes of Storm, Rogue, Cyclops, Kitty and most of the classic heroes outside of Wolverine did not get character development in Claremont's iconic run? Emma never got any since she joined the X-men in Morrison's run or heck even Gen X? No development for Kurt over in Excalibur? Havok and Polaris in X-Factor? Cyclops got no character development in the deciMation/Utopia era? None for Psylocke in Uncanny X-Force?
    I think you need to read what I was actually saying. You are arguing over my shoulder making counter arguments to something I didn’t say.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  15. #405

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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    We need to be careful with definitions here. I would call character development an expression of character such that we can see them more clearly. Hickman does this perfectly well. You seem to be referring to character arcs and your preference does not a rule make.
    See, I don't see this from him; I just see him putting characters in places and doing/saying things. No development, just...they're there.

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