Has Marvel learned their lesson regarding Ben Reilly?

[Spiderfang]

Forewarning, there are various Ben Reilly-related spoilers discussed in this thread.

I pose this question based on the fact that a Ben Reilly return has been anticipated and desired by fans for the past decade, and Marvel has acknowledged this by subtly trolling fans such as with the burning spider-hoodie for Spider-Island (which did not feature Ben), and other subtle easter eggs. His actual return was a mixed-bag for most; fans of Ben did not like his characterization this time around and stubborn readers from the Clone Saga days (not sure I would label them Reilly fans when they bash him constantly), insisted that the "real" Ben was and still is dead and that the 'new Ben' is just an imposter. Spider fans who remember Ben and Clone Saga, but were not favorable towards the clone reveal of the 90's, only cemented the fact that Ben was a poor attempt at Peter 2.0.

The powers that be at Marvel must have listened to or at least realized that Mr. Reilly did indeed have fans among the Marvel readership and gave him his own on-going series (his second to date iirc), which would be the basis for his redemption, however it would not touch on anything from the Clone Saga or issues relating to his death during said event, which some fans found disappointing (myself included).

Lastly, Reilly's story came to a quick and unceremonious end. His series was cancelled as a cost-cutting measure, presumably due to low sales and he was placed on the back burner until his reappearance in Spidergeddon in 2018. Marvel killed off Ben again in a truly heroic sacrifice, only to have him resurrect again only supposedly this time with all of his original faculties and persona intact as stated by Dr. Octopus himself (likely as an inarguable way of circumventing the whole "original Ben is dead, this is [X]!" by Ben critics). So with Ben finally being restored to his original self, and having remained alive through 2 (?) Spider & Symbiote-related events so far, has Marvel editorial finally learned their lesson regarding Ben Reilly? Personally I would rather Ben be on hiatus until a more definitive story can be crafted and of course written by someone who is familiar with the character. Marvel could have easily killed him off for good either during Scarlet Spider or Spidergeddon, but they seemed to have been listening to both the fans and the critics when they changed up the character as well as going out of their way to reinstate the "original Ben" via a plot device and acknowledging it in-universe, why bother going through all the trouble if they were just going to kill him off again?

Personally I think Marvel has found Ben to be a somewhat valuable if not creatively useful character, if placed in the right hands. They may have not completely learned their lesson and depending on who you ask, the idea that Marvel's editorial needed to learn a lesson is subjective altogether and could have simply just changed their approach on Ben Reilly. I think Marvel will use him again down the road, they just haven't found his niche yet and sadly it seems that his niche has been left back when he was more prominent, in the 1990's and he will probably be in back-burner limbo indefinitely, which is better than being killed off right?

[Huntsman Spider]

You raise some good points. I would like to see Ben used again, or at least acknowledged, and hopefully done better than he was in the last couple of years. At the same time, though, I'd prefer him to stay in comic book limbo until a writer with good ideas for how to utilize his character moving forward comes on. Maybe they can entice J.M. DeMatteis or Christopher Yost to come back for that.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

You raise some good points. I would like to see Ben used again, or at least acknowledged, and hopefully done better than he was in the last couple of years. At the same time, though, I'd prefer him to stay in comic book limbo until a writer with good ideas for how to utilize his character moving forward comes on. Maybe they can entice J.M. DeMatteis or Christopher Yost to come back for that.

Ben Reilly was actually mentioned in Spencer's newest and latest issue and has an in-panel flashback too.

[Snoop Dogg]

Spencerian Reilly.

[xpyred]

I've said it in other threads and i say it again;

There should be a a Scarlet Spiders series with Ben and Kaine. They need to move on from their past and work together in some capacity. Both their lives suck and really they should know that the person they were clone from, Peter Parker, has a shitty life too and they should finally just make their own lives and end their ridiculous feud. The series could even have "lost years" stories from various parts of both their lives. Together both of them could sell a series without the need for Peter Parker or any event series tying them to his life.

[SuperiorIronman]

The Spider-office didn't learn a damn thing.
They brought him back knowing what the audience had been looking for and did everything in its power to make that return suck as much as it possibly could. It doesn't matter if Spidergeddon supposedly saved the character. If there isn't a book to sell on the shelf your efforts are wasted since it's going to be some time before you can build up the interest again anyways. You can't just relaunch with a failed book, the audience has to be there and in the end it just wasn't for Ben. Thanks for wasting your time on a book you didn't like, now we might sell you what you want.
That just doesn't work.

Until Ben gets another shot I stand by the Spider-office failing the character. He can cameo or have supporting roles but his time with a title of his own I'd be genuinely surprised if it happened again any time soon. It's a shame since I do like the character but that was not the way to bring him back.

[Huntsman Spider]

Ben Reilly was actually mentioned in Spencer's newest and latest issue and has an in-panel flashback too.

His time as the Jackal and that being the reason Hitman isn't/wasn't dead anymore?

Spencerian Reilly.

Cowritten by Donny Cates, no less.

I've said it in other threads and i say it again;

There should be a a Scarlet Spiders series with Ben and Kaine. They need to move on from their past and work together in some capacity. Both their lives suck and really they should know that the person they were clone from, Peter Parker, has a shitty life too and they should finally just make their own lives and end their ridiculous feud. The series could even have "lost years" stories from various parts of both their lives. Together both of them could sell a series without the need for Peter Parker or any event series tying them to his life.

I would love to see that, but like SuperiorIronman indicated, it's gonna take a while to wash off the stink of The Clone Conspiracy.

The Spider-office didn't learn a damn thing.
They brought him back knowing what the audience had been looking for and did everything in its power to make that return suck as much as it possibly could. It doesn't matter if Spidergeddon supposedly saved the character. If there isn't a book to sell on the shelf your efforts are wasted since it's going to be some time before you can build up the interest again anyways. You can't just relaunch with a failed book, the audience has to be there and in the end it just wasn't for Ben. Thanks for wasting your time on a book you didn't like, now we might sell you what you want.
That just doesn't work.

Until Ben gets another shot I stand by the Spider-office failing the character. He can cameo or have supporting roles but his time with a title of his own I'd be genuinely surprised if it happened again any time soon. It's a shame since I do like the character but that was not the way to bring him back.

Seconded.

[David Walton]

You raise some good points. I would like to see Ben used again, or at least acknowledged, and hopefully done better than he was in the last couple of years. At the same time, though, I'd prefer him to stay in comic book limbo until a writer with good ideas for how to utilize his character moving forward comes on. Maybe they can entice J.M. DeMatteis or Christopher Yost to come back for that.

J.M. DeMatteis has said he would love to return to Ben Reilly given the opportunity.

[Huntsman Spider]

J.M. DeMatteis has said he would love to return to Ben Reilly given the opportunity.

Sounds great. Now we just have to wait for Marvel to give him that opportunity.

[Hypestyle]

The clone saga left a bad taste in my mouth severely.
the original "reveal" was too much of a gut punch for a guy like me who had grown up reading everything post-1975 or whenever the original story ended. it was a cheap way to make "Peter" single again and get out of the Pete/MJ Marriage angle.
Batman doesn't have a bunch of clone brothers. Neither does Superman. (No, Conner doesn't count as a full-blown "clone equal" down to the memories, which was the conceit with Ben, Kaine, etc.)

I'm one of the few people who doesn't relate to there being "three" "Peters" (OG Pete, "Ben", "Kaine") with the exact same memories up until, uh, whenever his blood cells were first sampled by Miles Warren.
The clone caskets and Warren's secret bases, much like the umpteenth refugee from the Weapon X program, have become a creative crutch that have worn out their welcome. saying that there's always another clone casket to give Octavius another Peter-body or another "Ben" or "Gwen" etc., is just egregious to me. I'm not feeling it. Whoever else can read it. that's their business. I won't. I'm glad for one Peter and that's it.

[boots]

I'm one of the few people who doesn't relate to there being "three" "Peters" (OG Pete, "Ben", "Kaine") with the exact same memories up until, uh, whenever his blood cells were first sampled by Miles Warren.

unless it was retconned, kaine didn't have peter's memories. just vague feelings of attachment to the things peter cared about

[jackolover]

I would like Ben Reilly to replace Peter for a while. Ben was always a little more clumsy than Peter, so he was more clunky, a different personality altogether. I think MJ would find Ben a little morbid, and too introspective to be attracted to him romantically. But I think MJ would still be attracted to him because he looks like Peter, and that could add drama, if not start it sizzle between MJ and Ben. Like Peters cousin maybe.

[Huntsman Spider]

I would like Ben Reilly to replace Peter for a while. Ben was always a little more clumsy than Peter, so he was more clunky, a different personality altogether. I think MJ would find Ben a little morbid, and too introspective to be attracted to him romantically. But I think MJ would still be attracted to him because he looks like Peter, and that could add drama, if not start it sizzle between MJ and Ben. Like Peters cousin maybe.

We already got that for about a year during the Clone Saga, and while it was interesting, a lot of the backlash came from trying to make him "the real Peter Parker," which he of course wasn't. Even if he was genetically the original --- which, again, he wasn't --- he had five years in-universe making his own life experiences, which would have rendered him a different person from the Peter Parker that we'd known for that same amount of time (20 years in real life). Not to mention that the poison pill of Ben's existence was the first attempt by Marvel executives at undoing Spider-Man's marriage to Mary Jane Watson(-Parker), so invalidating and discrediting the Peter Parker that did marry her was the whole point of exalting Ben Reilly as "the one, true Spider-Man." It was also Marvel's attempt at having its cake and eating it, too, with "married Peter Parker" kept around, but not as the main character, for the fans that did prefer him and "single Peter Parker" at the forefront of Spider-Man's adventures for the sake of the creatives and executives that couldn't stand Peter being married. Of course, fans just didn't like that "married Peter" was being treated as "the clone" and "single Peter"/Ben was being treated as "the original," because again, that was a very clear attempt on Marvel's part to invalidate the decision for Peter to marry Mary Jane, and ultimately, once Marvel saw that wasn't working . . . ashes to ashes, dust to dust, dust he was, and to dust, he returned.