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  1. #1
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Default What if Krakoa isn't meant to last past this year?

    I don't mean "Hicksmen is terrible and is ABSOLUTELY GOING TO BE CANCELLED BY THE END OF THE YEAR BLARGH"

    What I mean is, what if the plan is for this set up is the cause another, larger reboot of the X-men around the end of the year? 2020, I mean.

    Its a wild theory, but hear me out. First, the framing of what is going on in Krakoa is all over the place. There are shots of everyone being happy and hopeful, but also plenty that make things look more sinister. Magneto/Sinister on thrones in shadow, the INCOMING teaser with Xavier, Magneto and Apocalypse, that kind of thing. Hickman has said he's done all of this to get the Xmen away from circular genocide stories. Positioning them as villainous, or at least opposed to the rest of the Marvel world, feels counterintiutive unless there's something else at play.

    Second, the use of so many villains in charge of the nation. If the goal is long-term peace and prosperity, why put Apocalypse and Sinister in charge? Why Shaw and Selene? The stories have barely started and that's already causing problems. Its not exactly something that feels like it can last long term.

    Third, the pace has been breakneck. A lot of people were surprised to see Arakko come into play so quickly. The other series have already had major problems occur. Now obviously there needs to be conflict. But some of these issues seem bigger than the kinds of things we thought we'd see right off the bat.

    Lastly, the explosion of upcoming X titles. On twitter, I saw someone lay out all of the titles announced, rumored, and stated by Hickman. Depending on how you count each Giant Size issue, there are between 9 and 14 upcoming X books, with most of those being series! This is good for X fans, but not really sustainable. And again, this much storytelling so quickly is a bit much if they have as many long term plans as Hickman is saying.

    So here's my thought: this is all moving quickly because they are meant to lead into something big, and its going to happen around the end of the year. It may even start in the summer of 2020 as the big crossover event of the year. Krakoa is meant to be a stepping stone to a larger X-men reboot. Its reaching back to the beginning of the X men and bringing back characters from throughout X history as a last hurrah for long time fans, before hitting the reset button in a big way. Bring mutant-human relations back to zero, and the X-men to a smaller, more manageable number. This will be done to coincide with the X-men starting to show in movies and Disney+ shows, and to get the comics to something like a jumping on point for a newer audience.

    What do you think? Is it plausible or total BS?

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    I think it’s too big to end within a year. I think it’s too small an idea to last ten.

  3. #3
    Casual Comics Reader/Fan Londo Bellian's Avatar
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    It's your despair talking, and giving voice to mine.
    Genkai nante nai (No limits), Zettai nante nai (No absolutes)

    The Current Hill that I Risk Dying On: #KrakoaNEVERMYXMEN
    "I promise, I'll definitely save you. With my tenth and final life, I WILL PROTECT YOU, MUTANDOKA!" ~HoMoira Kinross Akemi

  4. #4
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    Haha no way Hickman and other writers spent thia long building up Krakoa just to get rid of it all in a year. I know X-Men fans are used to yearly / by yearly reboots but would have been his building here seems like something he wants to last for at least a decade.

  5. #5
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    Dude, please don't do this to yourself.

  6. #6
    Casual Comics Reader/Fan Londo Bellian's Avatar
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    Leave us to our misery. Do not add more bricks.
    Genkai nante nai (No limits), Zettai nante nai (No absolutes)

    The Current Hill that I Risk Dying On: #KrakoaNEVERMYXMEN
    "I promise, I'll definitely save you. With my tenth and final life, I WILL PROTECT YOU, MUTANDOKA!" ~HoMoira Kinross Akemi

  7. #7
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    It's an open thread, my man.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Simply put What if Krakoa isn't a ticking time bomb? What if Krakoa is just the X-mansion with a twist?
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 12-05-2019 at 04:58 AM.

  9. #9
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    What galls me is people complaining we don't see stuff immediately. I am quite sure we'll be seeing more of Selene and Emplate and their roles in things soon. To me it's the allusions to these new systems and organizations, the drip-feed of mysterious new lore that is most exciting, and watching it flower and be explored over time - like the Krakoan map and locations we've slowly seen revealed and explored.

    My closest analogy would be a deep cut - the controversial but way ahead of its time Keith Giffen/Tom & Mary Bierbaum "5 Years Later" Legion of Super-Heroes (vol. 4) at DC in the late '80s, which also had a time jump, many more mountains of new lore than this, and also deployed new info in data/text pages and inference. (They also were hamstrung by having to abruptly reboot their whole book's universe right in the middle of the book's relaunch to accommodate DC making them dump Superboy from the Legion mythos and substitute a different character, and had to drop an AU 2-parter and huge retcon in and then resume their original re-introductory arc - oof. But it worked!) I love savoring the little bits of new lore and then watching them come to fruition over time.

  10. #10
    Incredible Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    I don't mean "Hicksmen is terrible and is ABSOLUTELY GOING TO BE CANCELLED BY THE END OF THE YEAR BLARGH"

    What I mean is, what if the plan is for this set up is the cause another, larger reboot of the X-men around the end of the year? 2020, I mean.

    Its a wild theory, but hear me out. First, the framing of what is going on in Krakoa is all over the place. There are shots of everyone being happy and hopeful, but also plenty that make things look more sinister. Magneto/Sinister on thrones in shadow, the INCOMING teaser with Xavier, Magneto and Apocalypse, that kind of thing. Hickman has said he's done all of this to get the Xmen away from circular genocide stories. Positioning them as villainous, or at least opposed to the rest of the Marvel world, feels counterintiutive unless there's something else at play.

    Second, the use of so many villains in charge of the nation. If the goal is long-term peace and prosperity, why put Apocalypse and Sinister in charge? Why Shaw and Selene? The stories have barely started and that's already causing problems. Its not exactly something that feels like it can last long term.

    Third, the pace has been breakneck. A lot of people were surprised to see Arakko come into play so quickly. The other series have already had major problems occur. Now obviously there needs to be conflict. But some of these issues seem bigger than the kinds of things we thought we'd see right off the bat.

    Lastly, the explosion of upcoming X titles. On twitter, I saw someone lay out all of the titles announced, rumored, and stated by Hickman. Depending on how you count each Giant Size issue, there are between 9 and 14 upcoming X books, with most of those being series! This is good for X fans, but not really sustainable. And again, this much storytelling so quickly is a bit much if they have as many long term plans as Hickman is saying.

    So here's my thought: this is all moving quickly because they are meant to lead into something big, and its going to happen around the end of the year. It may even start in the summer of 2020 as the big crossover event of the year. Krakoa is meant to be a stepping stone to a larger X-men reboot. Its reaching back to the beginning of the X men and bringing back characters from throughout X history as a last hurrah for long time fans, before hitting the reset button in a big way. Bring mutant-human relations back to zero, and the X-men to a smaller, more manageable number. This will be done to coincide with the X-men starting to show in movies and Disney+ shows, and to get the comics to something like a jumping on point for a newer audience.

    What do you think? Is it plausible or total BS?
    There is certainly a difference of tone between movies and comics with X-men, the former being more consensual and more "familial" than the latter… I heard stories — not X-men, but still Marvel — about young people, after watching movies, that wanted to extend their interest in the comics and didn't find what they were looking for…

    With all the characters in the X-men franchise, it's hard to keep track of everyone, that's right, it's an inflation. It must be difficult for the writers.
    Also, not all the titles will work, there are too many, it looks like an experiment… Maybe it's about which characters are most loved, which must be kept.
    All the points you raise are right but "back to zero"? Which zero? The absolute zero would be the beginning of the X-men.

    If all the interest is about X-men is about the relationship between 'humans' and mutants and about X-men being misfits… I'm not sure it's very interesting that it keeps going. They have gone as far as they could, they can't go further (and the X-men are not longer misfits anyway, now they are mutants in a mutant society). A new audience cannot understand this radicalism. It haven't read all previous traumatic comics. (Would it want, too? Haven't we enough traumatic real stories?)

    Well, I don't know. Big publishers aren't known for their boldness. Too big, they are just managers. A talentuous writer is that they need, above all, to make compelling stories. The rest is nostalgia.
    " something strong and soft and green,
    thrusting through the dead and petrified grayness."
    Alan Moore.

    If I offended you, be assured that it wasn't my intention. English is not my first language.

  11. #11
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    The last point in the OP is the same thing we discussed re: the Astonishing X-Men thread. My answer is still no. Frankly, a version of Krakoa/HOX is all the fresh status quo the MCU would need for mutants - it would explain where they have been in the films. Like Wakanda, the mutants come out of the shadows after living in hiding, likely with the school years relegated to flashbacks, a la the young Pyms in Ant-Man. Is it definitely what Disney will do? No, but IMO it's likely now.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    The last point in the OP is the same thing we discussed re: the Astonishing X-Men thread. My answer is still no. Frankly, a version of Krakoa/HOX is all the fresh status quo the MCU would need for mutants - it would explain where they have been in the films. Like Wakanda, the mutants come out of the shadows after living in hiding, likely with the school years relegated to flashbacks, a la the young Pyms in Ant-Man. Is it definitely what Disney will do? No, but IMO it's likely now.
    I was thinking the same. They could even use the school, but more like an embassy. Or have Xavier and Magneto working undercover all these years to bring Krakoa to life.

  13. #13
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Krakoa will probably last for as long as Hickman's in charge. Which I think will be three years, as that's how long his Avengers run was.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Krakoa will probably last for as long as Hickman's in charge. Which I think will be three years, as that's how long his Avengers run was.
    Probably for longer than that. The school in any normal sense has not been used as a base for all the X-Men since the end of the Messiah War/assumed death of Xavier. After then the X-Men were based on Utopia. After the Schism Wolverine's crew was based in the school in Westchester, but after Secret Wars due to terrigen the whole school had to be moved to Limbo.

    I think the school as a concept doesn't work anymore, and the traditional idea of mutant villains doesn't work with humans, Inhumans, Avengers, and a host of other enemies trying to kill mutants.

    Also now that Disney owns Fox, Hickman was allowed to reconceptualize mutants to prepare them for the big screen. So if Krakoa is going to make the movies, it will be pretty permanent.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Krakoa will probably last for as long as Hickman's in charge. Which I think will be three years, as that's how long his Avengers run was.
    Avengers was always limited, on a clock to Secret Wars. He's indicated he has bigger, more systemic plans to fundamentally realign the X-books, and that he's had them since before Avengers. (I think he's even suggested Avengers was a stepping stone for him to X-Men.) I don't know how long he'll be here, but my suspicion is it will be a bit longer than that. I'd personally like to see him try to take a run at Slott's Spider-Man length, but I'd settle for five years.

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