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  1. #1
    Sun of the Mourning Montressor's Avatar
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    Default Has any explanation been given for Jor El and this 'Oz' business?

    Were we ever told why he was saved, by whom (Manhattan?), or why he was capturing folks like Mxy and Tim Drake? At what point will this be undone and Jor El returned to his place in history? Or has this been addressed already?
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  2. #2
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Nope to all of that. Maybe the finale of Doomsday Clock will gloss over it and give an answer, but even then it likely won't have time to get into the more detailed stuff like his taking Tim and Mxy prisoners. That will probably be forever unexplained.

    And in a way Jor-El already was returned to his place in history. Just not via a reset of Manhattan's meddling. The elder Jor-El was sent back in time to Krypton's destruction as punishment for his crimes. Basically now two versions of Jor-El died there that day, the young Jor-El and the old one. It was a pretty dumb conclusion, but he's gone now regardless.
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  3. #3
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Nope to all of that. Maybe the finale of Doomsday Clock will gloss over it and give an answer, but even then it likely won't have time to get into the more detailed stuff like his taking Tim and Mxy prisoners. That will probably be forever unexplained.

    And in a way Jor-El already was returned to his place in history. Just not via a reset of Manhattan's meddling. The elder Jor-El was sent back in time to Krypton's destruction as punishment for his crimes. Basically now two versions of Jor-El died there that day, the young Jor-El and the old one. It was a pretty dumb conclusion, but he's gone now regardless.
    Bendis said his book will connect to doomsday clock. So, even if doomsday clock does not. Maybe his book will.

  4. #4
    Sun of the Mourning Montressor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Nope to all of that. Maybe the finale of Doomsday Clock will gloss over it and give an answer, but even then it likely won't have time to get into the more detailed stuff like his taking Tim and Mxy prisoners. That will probably be forever unexplained.

    And in a way Jor-El already was returned to his place in history. Just not via a reset of Manhattan's meddling. The elder Jor-El was sent back in time to Krypton's destruction as punishment for his crimes. Basically now two versions of Jor-El died there that day, the young Jor-El and the old one. It was a pretty dumb conclusion, but he's gone now regardless.
    Wow, thanks, I knew none of that. If that's how they got rid of Jor El I sincerely hope this upcoming Crisis wipes that away and we get the simple origin with Jor El playing his role. It's as if they didn't know what to do with the plot thread and just said 'screw it'.
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  5. #5
    I'm at least a C-Lister! exile001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montressor View Post
    Wow, thanks, I knew none of that. If that's how they got rid of Jor El I sincerely hope this upcoming Crisis wipes that away and we get the simple origin with Jor El playing his role. It's as if they didn't know what to do with the plot thread and just said 'screw it'.
    I believe you've hit the nail on the head right there.
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  6. #6
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    My guess is they had some kind of New 52 based plan for him and when they decided to get rid of the New 52, he was this plot thread they had left dangling out there they had to deal with and couldn't really come up with anything. They spent so much energy building up to him that I have to believe they had something in mind but Rebirth kind of put the kibosh on it. I think there were all kinds of things in the works they were planning that never got off the ground or had to be diverted due to continuity changes. Some have suggested Doomsday Clock was meant to have a different ending too until Bendis changed the Legion.
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  7. #7
    Sun of the Mourning Montressor's Avatar
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    I hope at some point we get some behind the scenes info on what would've happened had Johns stayed on and Doomsday Clock was completed as originally planned.
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  8. #8
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Nope to all of that. Maybe the finale of Doomsday Clock will gloss over it and give an answer, but even then it likely won't have time to get into the more detailed stuff like his taking Tim and Mxy prisoners. That will probably be forever unexplained.

    And in a way Jor-El already was returned to his place in history. Just not via a reset of Manhattan's meddling. The elder Jor-El was sent back in time to Krypton's destruction as punishment for his crimes. Basically now two versions of Jor-El died there that day, the young Jor-El and the old one. It was a pretty dumb conclusion, but he's gone now regardless.
    I honestly felt if they kept the original Rebirth Superman teams that they would've done better with OZ than what Bendis did.
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  9. #9
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    They still haven't explained what the whole 'splitting Superman' thing was all about, and whether Oz did it or Manhattan.

    And how does it work in the context of Jor-El being Oz?

    They present Oz as being the Post-Reborn version of Jor-El. But Oz predates the merger of the two Supermen. So Pre-Reborn, was Oz the New 52 Jor-El or the Pre-Flashpoint Jor-El? Or was he somehow already the Post-Reborn Jor-El?

    How does Convergence tie into the splitting of the two Supermen?

    Manhattan claims that the New 52 Superman was the product of his tampering with Superman's history. Is that somehow part of the splitting of Superman? How does what Vyndyktv did during Morrison's run tie into this?

  10. #10
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    They still haven't explained what the whole 'splitting Superman' thing was all about, and whether Oz did it or Manhattan.

    And how does it work in the context of Jor-El being Oz?

    They present Oz as being the Post-Reborn version of Jor-El. But Oz predates the merger of the two Supermen. So Pre-Reborn, was Oz the New 52 Jor-El or the Pre-Flashpoint Jor-El? Or was he somehow already the Post-Reborn Jor-El?

    How does Convergence tie into the splitting of the two Supermen?

    Manhattan claims that the New 52 Superman was the product of his tampering with Superman's history. Is that somehow part of the splitting of Superman? How does what Vyndyktv did during Morrison's run tie into this?
    I wish DC kept as good a track of their stories like you do.
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  11. #11
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montressor View Post
    Wow, thanks, I knew none of that. If that's how they got rid of Jor El I sincerely hope this upcoming Crisis wipes that away and we get the simple origin with Jor El playing his role. It's as if they didn't know what to do with the plot thread and just said 'screw it'.
    Yeah, that's definitely how it felt, that Bendis was just trying to get rid of it once he was done using Jor-El for his Jon purposes. And you're welcome for the info.

    If the Metal saga was in concept around the time that Oz was brought back for Rebirth, and I have to believe it was at least in development, they should have connected him to that whole deal and not Doomsday Clock. Mr. Oz should have been a Dark Multiverse version of Jonathan.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 12-10-2019 at 12:16 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  12. #12
    Incredible Member astro@work's Avatar
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    While Jor-El's story has been resolved, they left out the most important part...WHY WAS JOR-EL SAVED AND KEPT IN THE TIMELINE IN THE FIRSTPLACE???

    I'm not convinced it was the change from nu52 to Rebirth that screwed up the storytelling...I think it was the interminable delays in getting Doomsday Clock published that caused it. If the book had come out on time his story would have been resolved before Bendis came along. Instead, D-Clock is so late that Jor-El ended up being a dangling plot thread that they got sick of hanging around.

    We'll find out next week whether Jor-El's story gets addressed in the final issue of Doomsday ClusterClock, … but I'm guessing no. Jor is gone now, and we'll probably never know why he was saved by Dr Manhattan, why he was pulling people like Tim out of the timeline, or who the other "mystery" characters in his dimensional prison were. To my recollection he hadn't been mentioned in issues #1-11, so it would be odd to bring him into the story at this late date, just to explain a story that took place in a completely different book.

  13. #13
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure DC has been nothing but dropped storylines for the last ten years. Remember all the stuff they were building up and establishing after Blackest Night? Yeah, that lasted for two seconds before the reboot hit. Tons of threads from the New52 got dropped between DCYOU and Rebirth, and now Rebirth is dropping plot points it started nearly four years ago in 2016. And how many plot points will end up being forgotten if these 5G rumors turn out to be true?

    Seriously, I'm considering sending a pitch to DC. I can't be any worse than what we're already getting.
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  14. #14
    Sun of the Mourning Montressor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I'm pretty sure DC has been nothing but dropped storylines for the last ten years. Remember all the stuff they were building up and establishing after Blackest Night? Yeah, that lasted for two seconds before the reboot hit. Tons of threads from the New52 got dropped between DCYOU and Rebirth, and now Rebirth is dropping plot points it started nearly four years ago in 2016. And how many plot points will end up being forgotten if these 5G rumors turn out to be true?

    Seriously, I'm considering sending a pitch to DC. I can't be any worse than what we're already getting.
    Folks argue with me but I've said for years that Johns would occasionally introduce plot threads with no idea where he intended to go with them. I'm 100% convinced that he had no idea what was going on with Pandora when he turned in that first script.
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