"Sir, does this mean that Ann Margret's not coming?"
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"One of the maddening but beautiful things about comics is that you have to give characters a sense of change without changing them so much that they violate the essence of who they are." ~ Ann Nocenti, Chris Claremont's X-Men.
Yyyyyes, but he's still done stuff like causing a sentient sun to become destabalized in a matter of seconds while in his astral form, then protected his still comatose body from the resulting supernova with the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak (admittedly, this would only involve protecting himself from a person-sized chunk of the exploding sun rather than tanking the entire nova, but still). I think he may have still been in his astral form when he subsequently corked the black hole that the supernova somehow immediately collapsed into.
Last edited by The Drunkard Kid; 12-08-2019 at 08:20 AM.
I guess Wally could given the opportunity accelerate to the point that time freezes for him and then dump the good doc in speed force tough whether it could imprison a esoteric like strange is doubtful. Alternatively is it possible that strange could just cut off his link to the speed force?
"But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
"Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
"...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan
Pretty much the above. Strange, in astral form, is ‘weaker’. By ‘weaker’, we mean ‘still makes a sun go supernova, then protects his body against the explosion with the crimson bands.’
Why are we here?
"Superboy Prime (the yelling guy if he needs clarification)..." - Postmania
"...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik
"Why throw punches when you can be making everyone around you sterile mutant corpses?" - Pendaran, regarding Dr. Fate
Yeah, but that's a lot of PIS too: Wally would get tricked by Mirror Master despite the later not really being all that massively FTL. Wally would need McGuffins or special circumstances to stop Cold.
Most of Wally's solo foes really don't belong on the same page with the guy.
"But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
"Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
"...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan
Ok but then by that logic Wallys speed steal would not even work on a GL whose ring does stuff on its own like prioritize essential life support when running low on juice.
To put it another way, Hulk's thick skin/ physical stats is his "auto shield". It even deals with "esoterics" like that one time he was being turned to stone but resisted because of his healing factor . Do we say wally can't speed drain the hulk then? Or more comparably, do GL shields stop a speed steal? Do Luthor's force fields? Dr Doom's? Iron Man?
What I'm saying is, Strange should have at least somewhat similar stuff like resisting time stops on their own or say high end crap like reality warping, rather than hand waving speed steal resistance because he stopped an unrelated thing (gravity) one time
Also Wally could phase through or punch down the shield? And if we're talking current Wally, that guy's gonna blow through everything and punch out Strange anyway
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Last edited by The Dork Knight; 12-09-2019 at 12:49 AM.
Strange has MUCH better feats for dealing with much more wild esoterics with his autoshields then GLs or Hulk. I think what Ocean Meat was going for was saying that autoshields wouldn't be weaker than any other sort of defense - they will work against anything they can work against. Strange's autoshields have proven effective against a wide range of esoteric and direct effects, including transmutation, soul rips, intangibility, mind control, reality warping, hallucinatory or psychodelic effects, etc. by people well above Wally West's paygrade. Wally, therefore, would need to have feats for working a speedsteal against/through such a defense.
Plus, Strange is very capable of upping that game significantly with a gesture, or, even better, using his half second to fill the arena with Crimson Bands, things that will absolutely trap Wally dead in his tracks (feats for working on intangibles, astral beings, and just generally on beings again, well out of Wally's paygrade).
"But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
"Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
"...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan
Ok so ...some specific examples of this impressive stuff then? Stuff that Strange is not doing consciously, mind, we already know he's impressive like that.
For example Wally West uses speed steal on Amazo on a day hes trashing the entire league, using multiple powers including Zatanna's magic (to do a blanket block of all her spells directly cast on him), growing back his head, recovering from a hole in his guts, turning intangible etc.
Wally has outrun his own shadow, considering even Strange in his astral form could evade Dormammus crimson bands for a while , the crimson bands are hardly auto winPlus, Strange is very capable of upping that game significantly with a gesture, or, even better, using his half second to fill the arena with Crimson Bands, things that will absolutely trap Wally dead in his tracks (feats for working on intangibles, astral beings, and just generally on beings again, well out of Wally's paygrade).
Also current Wally is shaking other dimensions and worlds and splitting open the skies COIE style as a side effect of his speed (casually busting planetary level Hals shields for instance ) , hes faster than Zoom now.
If its current wally hes just going to bust through stranges shields
Strange evaded them over all of New York, when Dormammu didn't know where he was. And not for long.
And it sounds like current Wally has been hitting the speedforce steroids again. And I don't think that's enough to blow through Strange's shields once he amps him with a gesture, which he'll do in his half-second of action. Mileage may vary, said a wise man.
"But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
"Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
"...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan
Might be worth noting that current Hal is making full blown stars over in the Green Lantern. Well, leading two other GLs in doing it, but even contributing a third of that power for 2 hours is really absurd. Shattering a barrier he has built up specifically, with more than a half second to do so, is significant.
Oh, gawd. I'm going to need to go back through a gazillion Dr. Strange comics...actually, nevermind. He has a half-second prep here, which is enough for him to gang-sign 'Shields set to *no weirdness*', so that takes care of that issue.
This doesn't sound like Amazo has some 'anti-esoterics' shielding up.For example Wally West uses speed steal on Amazo on a day hes trashing the entire league, using multiple powers including Zatanna's magic (to do a blanket block of all her spells directly cast on him), growing back his head, recovering from a hole in his guts, turning intangible etc.
The Crimson Bands filling the entire arena would be, because at that point there is literally nowhere to go. But it's just an example of the kind of crap Classic Strange could do if he had time to set stuff up; there's plenty of other magical, area affecting weirdness he might carry through with.Wally has outrun his own shadow, considering even Strange in his astral form could evade Dormammus crimson bands for a while , the crimson bands are hardly auto win
The big issue here is 'Can Strange last long enough to start with the mojo?'
Side note: Astral forms move faster than light (I know, faster than light is slow compared to Wally). Strange evading the Crimson Bands failed. I'm not saying Wally couldn't outrun them, due to him being far, far faster than 'FTL', mind. I'm just noting that they're pretty decent with regards to speed.
Okay, if Wally is currently shaking entire dimensions and worlds just by running around, almost breaking Hal's ring, and punching all hell out of Nu52 Superman, I can totally buy him having a decent chance of busting through shields that Strange has only had a half-second to reinforce.Also current Wally is shaking other dimensions and worlds and splitting open the skies COIE style as a side effect of his speed (casually busting planetary level Hals shields for instance ) , hes faster than Zoom now.
If its current wally hes just going to bust through stranges shields
Why are we here?
"Superboy Prime (the yelling guy if he needs clarification)..." - Postmania
"...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik
"Why throw punches when you can be making everyone around you sterile mutant corpses?" - Pendaran, regarding Dr. Fate