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  1. #46
    Extraordinary Member The Dork Knight's Avatar
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    Ok, I missed the "half a second warning" part . I was talking auto shields

    Is it possible Wally could lead the bands to wrap around Strange himself instead? He's outraced stuff like that before .

    That's not n52 superman, it's an alt universe superman. Aside from the fact that the JL were vampires, they seemed to be on the same level, their Barry was as fast as Wally.
    Wally did beat Zoom though, who one shotted current superman, who packs quite a punch

    https://i.postimg.cc/ncXWyZnT/image.jpg

    Current Wally is "unmoored" from the speed force (which he destroyed/ messed up) and is apparently faster than ever
    Last edited by The Dork Knight; 12-09-2019 at 06:01 AM.

  2. #47
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dork Knight View Post
    Ok, I missed the "half a second warning" part . I was talking auto shields
    No worries there. We kind of got into the autoshields, and never got away from it.

    Is it possible Wally could lead the bands to wrap around Strange himself instead? He's outraced stuff like that before.
    Interesting question. I would say that nobody has ever done this before, and the bands specifically go after their target, ignoring all else...as one option. As another option, they can just basically fill up an area. Or seal it away. And given someone of much lesser heft than Strange has dealt with an area the size of a rather large mansion with a flick of the fingers, I don't doubt that Strange can pretty much do the same to the arena.

    I don't think Wally can just lead them to Strange and have them 'attack' Strange. They simply won't bother with their caster, instead continuing to pursue Wally while more and more bands propagate to fill the area.

    But again, the Bands are just a specific example of stuff Strange could do assuming he has time to do so. Strange has all kinds of area affecting crap he can pull off.

    For me, this comes down to 'Can Wally get through the shields before Strange does something awful?' If he can, he wins. If he can't, Strange wins. No shame there for either of them.

    That's not n52 superman, it's an alt universe superman. Aside from the fact that the JL were vampires, they seemed to be on the same level, their Barry was as fast as Wally.
    Wally did beat Zoom though, who one shotted current superman, who packs quite a punch
    If the alt-universe Superman was as strong and tough as nu52, then it's the same thing to me. Especially with that scan. ^_^

    Beating Zoom, on the other hand, doesn't mean he could one-shot Superman himself, if you get my meaning.

    Current Wally is "unmoored" from the speed force (which he destroyed/ messed up) and is apparently faster than ever
    Then I figure if it's current Wally, he seems to at least stand a decent chance if he's overloading Hal's ring when Hal is READY for him, beating up someone who is supposed to be the equivalent of nu52 Superman, shaking entire worlds by running, etc. Comes down to 'Can he break through shields that eat supernovas, that Dormammu has to at least put effort into breaking, that block shots that blow through entire planets casually with enough oomph to take out the Ancient One, etc'?

    I don't know.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

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    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
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  3. #48
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Jeebus current Superman is strong. Like damn.

  4. #49
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Haul stars between galaxies? What the actual f$&k?

    Do they think that stars are solid?
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  5. #50
    Extraordinary Member The Dork Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Then I figure if it's current Wally, he seems to at least stand a decent chance if he's overloading Hal's ring when Hal is READY for him, beating up someone who is supposed to be the equivalent of nu52 Superman, shaking entire worlds by running, etc. Comes down to 'Can he break through shields that eat supernovas, that Dormammu has to at least put effort into breaking, that block shots that blow through entire planets casually with enough oomph to take out the Ancient One, etc'?
    I guess it depends on whether we're spotting strange as being capable of putting significantly beyond star busting durability shields in half a second. Maybe ? Because wally has a relative eternity to then attack the shield once set

  6. #51
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dork Knight View Post
    I guess it depends on whether we're spotting strange as being capable of putting significantly beyond star busting durability shields in half a second. Maybe ? Because wally has a relative eternity to then attack the shield once set
    Strange, in Astral Form, did a couple of gang-signs and created the Crimson Bands that resisted the supernova (no incantation). Again, this was in astral form, which is weaker than his normal form.

    Like you say, maybe?

    Basically the half-second prep thing is what confuses the issue. With more time, absolutely 100% Strange could buff up the shields to truly ridiculous, 'make Dormammu exert himself' levels, and go from there. With less time, Wally no-question busts through them as Strange can't really power them up before Wally hits them a gazillion whatever times.

    Half-second... *wiggles hand* I dunno. It's hard to quantify time in comics.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  7. #52
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    I think we all agree to "maybe?"
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;"
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    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."

    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics."
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  8. #53
    Death of Time Cronus's Avatar
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    And...not sure if it's been covered, but what can Wally do to Strange in astral form? It just seems like Strange has a few really effective defenses that stifles Wally's best stuff.
    Last edited by Cronus; 12-09-2019 at 05:10 PM.
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  9. #54
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    Jeebus current Superman is strong. Like damn.
    So strong the link broke for me.
    "... and when the Golden Toad started to sing, there was no turning back." - grampagen (Ochazuke)

    "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."

  10. #55
    Extraordinary Member The Dork Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cronus View Post
    And...not sure if it's been covered, but what can Wally do to Strange in astral form? It just seems like Strange has a few really effective defenses that stifles Wally's best stuff.
    The idea being that if Wally busts through Strange's shield, he'd KO Strange before he can get off a thought. If he can't, Strange has too many ways to eventually beat him anyway

  11. #56
    Death of Time Cronus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dork Knight View Post
    The idea being that if Wally busts through Strange's shield, he'd KO Strange before he can get off a thought.
    Sure. Not so sure he can bust through auto shields though. I was more referring to "are they even necessary if Strange can manifest in astral form in a half second?" Can Strange be hurt by Wally in this form?
    "I know you're in there Banner. I'll get you out!"
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  12. #57
    Extraordinary Member The Dork Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cronus View Post
    Sure. Not so sure he can bust through auto shields though. I was more referring to "are they even necessary if Strange can manifest in astral form in a half second?" Can Strange be hurt by Wally in this form?
    Doesn't that leave his physical body open to the attack ,that would lead to a victory for wally if he destroyed the physical body?

    Also wouldn't Strange not be losing valuable time shoring up his shields if he switches to astral form, allowing Wally to wreck his physical body that much easier ?

    To put it another way, during his fight against the living star, strange was counting on his physical body holding up long enough for the astral stuff to happen...here if strange gives up his physical body ,his defences will simply be lowered won't they?he still cant react faster than wally ....so the stakes remain the same. If wally busts through the shields and destroys his physical body it's still a win. If he doesn't, strange can beat him anyhow
    Last edited by The Dork Knight; 12-09-2019 at 11:34 PM.

  13. #58
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Strange going astral isn't really a viable tactic in the arena, because it would still leave his body there, and reduce his combat power at the same time.

    Strange's best bet is still going to be "gang-sign, shield amp" followed by "spam-something-AoE-autohoming-that-fills-the-arena." Whether the first thing is enough to resist the presented current screws-up-dimensions Wally is the only real question, and I don't think that we have enough specific feats to know 100%.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;"
    - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."

    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics."
    -Captain Morgan

  14. #59
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dork Knight View Post
    Doesn't that leave his physical body open to the attack ,that would lead to a victory for wally if he destroyed the physical body?

    Also wouldn't Strange not be losing valuable time shoring up his shields if he switches to astral form, allowing Wally to wreck his physical body that much easier ?

    To put it another way, during his fight against the living star, strange was counting on his physical body holding up long enough for the astral stuff to happen...here if strange gives up his physical body ,his defences will simply be lowered won't they?he still cant react faster than wally ....so the stakes remain the same. If wally busts through the shields and destroys his physical body it's still a win. If he doesn't, strange can beat him anyhow
    The thing of high up enough magic people in Marvel is if you kill their physical body while they are astral projecting, that doesn't do up their Astral Projecting form necessarily. So Wally killing his physical body might only just do that, leaving Astral Strange still free to do various nonsense Wally can't do things about.

    I mean at one point Dormammu tricked Strange into projecting out of his body, then made it his own while he did. Strange was able to still mess around despite no longer being tied to any corporeal form, as it were. If he uses his small bit of time to project, then yeah, there's potentially not a whooole lot of anything the Flash can do to him other than wreck his body, whereas for Strange...
    Last edited by Pendaran; 12-10-2019 at 01:27 AM.

  15. #60
    Extraordinary Member The Dork Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    The thing of high up enough magic people in Marvel is if you kill their physical body while they are astral projecting, that doesn't do up their Astral Projecting form necessarily. So Wally killing his physical body might only just do that, leaving Astral Strange still free to do various nonsense Wally can't do things about.

    I mean at one point Dormammu tricked Strange into projecting out of his body, then made it his own while he did. Strange was able to still mess around despite no longer being tied to any corporeal form, as it were. If he uses his small bit of time to project, then yeah, there's potentially not a whooole lot of anything the Flash can do to him other than wreck his body, whereas for Strange...
    Not having control of his body is one thing...his physical form being completely destroyed is another. This is what strange was worried about in the fight v the living star.

    Does strange have feats for going on after his physical body has been destroyed?

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