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  1. #121
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnormallyNormal View Post
    I'm glad so many people are pissed about this book.

    First of all how many "morally ambiguous" type books will there be? X-Force clearly was meant to be THE book for that but then Fallen Angels was also sort of. Marauders about halfway is.

    Now this Hellions thing... I was hoping desperately for something like Acolytes with actually good characters in it but instead this. Just a waste

    /rant
    That's been a problem with me too. It feels like 2/3rds of this run is dominated by villains, either leading, manipulating or making all of the important decisions. Can't we get an unambiguous book about good guys in this mix? Why is it so hard to write the X-men as straight heroes?

  2. #122
    Mighty Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnormallyNormal View Post
    I'm glad so many people are pissed about this book.

    First of all how many "morally ambiguous" type books will there be? X-Force clearly was meant to be THE book for that but then Fallen Angels was also sort of. Marauders about halfway is.

    Now this Hellions thing... I was hoping desperately for something like Acolytes with actually good characters in it but instead this. Just a waste

    /rant
    X-Force is mostly heroes tho. They're doing coverwork and intelligence operations if that is considered ambiguous.

    Accolytes would be nice to have, I'll admit that. I'd like them to be an Extinction Team sponsored by Magneto to show humans who's their gods

  3. #123
    Mighty Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    That's been a problem with me too. It feels like 2/3rds of this run is dominated by villains, either leading, manipulating or making all of the important decisions. Can't we get an unambiguous book about good guys in this mix? Why is it so hard to write the X-men as straight heroes?
    Every team is supposed to have a "rebranded" mutant villain. This is the first one with mostly villains.

  4. #124
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterParked View Post
    New X-Men had 46 issues, then it was relaunched (a sign it wasn’t selling well anymore) and ended after 12 issues, a sign that the relaunch didn’t work. So the pictures is quite different than the one you are painting. We could say they stopped being successful 12 years ago, or that they have been successful for around 3 years before the first decline, and these would be two factual statements.
    Forgetting the 13-issue run that led into it plus the Hellions mini that fit in right at the end of #15.


  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    New X-Men outsold Superman and Action Comics even before the Messiah Complex bump.

    Young X-Men did sell like shit though, and instead of blaming the writer, Marvel blamed it on the property.
    And then brought the writer who drove it into the ground back to write a core book. Multiple times.

    This Week's Comics: Old Guard: Force Multiplied #2, Excalibur #6, Marauders #6

  6. #126
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    That's been a problem with me too. It feels like 2/3rds of this run is dominated by villains, either leading, manipulating or making all of the important decisions. Can't we get an unambiguous book about good guys in this mix? Why is it so hard to write the X-men as straight heroes?
    There is exactly one villain per series without counting X-Men that is rotating.

    Excalibur: Apocalypse
    Marauders: Pyro
    Fallen Angels: Psylocke
    New Mutants: Mondo
    X-Force: Black Tom Cassidy

    2/3 rds? Just hyperbole.

  7. #127
    Astonishing Member OBrianTallent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    There is exactly one villain per series without counting X-Men that is rotating.

    Excalibur: Apocalypse
    Marauders: Pyro
    Fallen Angels: Psylocke
    New Mutants: Mondo
    X-Force: Black Tom Cassidy

    2/3 rds? Just hyperbole.
    If you consider Sebastian Shaw a villain and Shinobi as well...Marauders appears to have 3.
    However I do get what they are saying...the X line as a whole seems to be much more grey area than ever before. It would be nice to have a team that is a straight up super hero book. maybe bring back astonishing as the bright and shining face of the X-Men...
    Last edited by OBrianTallent; 12-08-2019 at 01:46 PM.

  8. #128
    Fantastic Member DAHX's Avatar
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    Also the council that's responsible for making the laws of Krakoa has a lot of villains on it. some really bad ones, that's not negligible. But I personally love that the villains are working with the X-Men

  9. #129
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OBrianTallent View Post
    If you consider Sebastian Shaw a villain and Shinobi as well...Marauders appears to have 3.
    However I do get what they are saying...the X line as a whole seems to be much more grey area than ever before. It would be nice to have a team that is a straight up super hero book. maybe bring back astonishing as the bright and shining face of the X-Men...
    Shinobi and Shaw are part of the story but not part of the team.

    The X-Men have always had a great tradition of having villains in their teams, we can go back to Magneto and Rogue.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    X-Force is mostly heroes tho. They're doing coverwork and intelligence operations if that is considered ambiguous.

    Accolytes would be nice to have, I'll admit that. I'd like them to be an Extinction Team sponsored by Magneto to show humans who's their gods
    I'd be so down for an Acolytes book. Maybe throw in Polaris and Quicksilver for some more exciting names. Rotate old and new Acolytes. Need Scanner, Neophyte, Unuscione for sure. Throw in some Kleinstocks. Chrome. Maybe even Gargouille.

  11. #131

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    It would be interesting to see Seamus Mellencamp's backstory? Has he always had his sparkling personality? Was he ever voted best dressed in his grade school?

    Last edited by Michael Watkins; 12-08-2019 at 02:22 PM.
    "I just don't get why you wouldn't want to break the law anymore" --Scorpia

  12. #132
    Mugga, please. xhx23x's Avatar
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    it's weird enough to check out, definitely, but I wouldn't mind having Julian in this.

  13. #133
    Mighty Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    It would be interesting to see Seamus Mellencamp's backstory? Has he always had his sparkling personality? Was he ever voted best dressed in his grade school?

    Oof Jean with that progressive talk.

  14. #134
    Mighty Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xhx23x View Post
    it's weird enough to check out, definitely, but I wouldn't mind having Julian in this.
    I actually think he could work well here, not only for the name and all. He'd fit quite well.

  15. #135
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    X-Force is mostly heroes tho. They're doing coverwork and intelligence operations if that is considered ambiguous.

    Accolytes would be nice to have, I'll admit that. I'd like them to be an Extinction Team sponsored by Magneto to show humans who's their gods
    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    Every team is supposed to have a "rebranded" mutant villain. This is the first one with mostly villains.
    X-Force was advertised as 'mutant CIA', which is pretty sketchy. The actual story hasn't really been that, which I appreciate. I'm honestly OK with villains being given chances and being on teams, but that doesn't feel like what's happening.

    Its not that the number of villains on each group is more than the number of villains. That's completely misunderstanding my point. Its that the villains are either running the show, or running circles around everyone. Emma and Shaw are the driving force behind Marauders, not Storm or Kitty. Apocalypse clearly has ulterior motives in Excaliber, and might be responsible for what's going on. Even in Fallen Angles Kwannon had to get permission to go on her murder quest from Magneto and Sinister. The entire Krakoa government has multiple terrible people running it, and while Storm and Nightcrawler are theoretically as powerful as the others, Emma, Magneto, Xavier, Sinister and Apocalypse seem to be running the show.

    All of this could easily be fixed with the next few issues, and if you're enjoying it, great. But its turning me off. And Hellions being yet another Mr. Sinister thing really keeps me away

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