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  1. #16
    Incredible Member tbaron's Avatar
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    Venom is by far not Spiderman's Arch enemy any more. I mean the two have worked together several times. With the whole Superior Spiderman thing I wouldnt put Doc Ock as a Spiderman Arch enemy but that will most likely change now that old Doc Ock is back.
    Favorite teams. Avengers, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  2. #17
    Mighty Member LifeIsILL's Avatar
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    Juggernaut and X-Men

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Ross was always Bruce and the Hulks' archenemy. Leader or Abomination or whatnot aren't personal enough. Not like it matters, since modern Hulk writers are generally not interested in firing those guns anyway.
    Ross lost that status when he became anti-hero though

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I don't think being an anti-hero necessarily disqualifies him, because he could still be an antagonist to Bruce specifically, because he has always genuinely believed the was doing the right thing when he was going after Hulk. Nemesis does not necessarily have to equal a villain, as long as they are in opposition to each other.

  5. #20
    The Celestial Dragon Tien Long's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbaron View Post
    Venom is by far not Spiderman's Arch enemy any more. I mean the two have worked together several times. With the whole Superior Spiderman thing I wouldnt put Doc Ock as a Spiderman Arch enemy but that will most likely change now that old Doc Ock is back.
    The first "villain" that came to mind. Yes, he started out as Spider-Man's evil mirror image, but over the decades that has certainly changed into something different. After all of the team-up's and fighting against symbiotes, these two have changed a lot. Rereading Absolute Carnage, I feel that Spider-Man and Venom can no longer be called bitter enemies, but rather unlikely allies. Hell, they're approaching a brotherly type of relationship.
    "I am a man of peace."

    "A man of peace...who fights like ten tigers."

  6. #21
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    Iron Man and Mandarin.

    Now that we've left Red Scare villains behind, their relationship never recovered and the ony way I can think to make Mandarin relevant again (corrupt Chinese official), Disney would never allow

  7. #22
    Fantastic Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Iron Man and Mandarin.

    Now that we've left Red Scare villains behind, their relationship never recovered and the ony way I can think to make Mandarin relevant again (corrupt Chinese official), Disney would never allow
    You could just have the Mandarin be what he's been in many comics, a Chinese megalomaniac who despises the Communist government and wants a return of imperial Dynasties.

  8. #23
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    As mentioned above, I think Malekith and to an extent Gorr (he can't really be used recurringly tho) were set up as his replacements, I know Malekith got killed, but like Loki hasn't been killed and/or imprisoned tons of times, he'll escape, that's part of the deal. And if not, there is still time to address who takes his spot, with the whole roles deal that was set up, it seems like something that will have to be sort of officially filled at some point, even it hasn't been revealed yet
    Malekith feels like a character Aaron was more personally invested in, so I don't see him coming back anytime soon (even if Cates is a big fan of the run). He pretty much peaked with War of the Realms.

    Short of bringing in future evil!Loki I'm not sure if anyone could properly take over the spot.
    Cates did set up Sif as Heimdall's replacement in terms of role, so he seems to be continuing that aspect. (tho yeah, that's one that kinda needed to be filled for like, practical reasons)
    Sif deserves better, but hopefully Cates will treat her better in the role then I would've expected from the previous era.
    but i mean it's been 10 years, and it's worked out alright without him as the big bad. I'm not sure it's something that really NEEDS to be filled, in terms of just comics recently. I think the idea of a personal recurring nemesis that they fight more often than not has just kind of fallen out of fashion somewhat. There are some recurring villains still, sure, but it's somethig you see less of, and with Thor, he corner of the universe he occupies has the potential to be so large, because of all the relams, and he can go cosmic or whatever, that he's very easy to come up with new baddies for.
    I don't know if you really see less of it when, Thor aside, they generally dedicate major storylines to the bigger villains or Archenemies. Joker, Luthor, Osborn, Cheetah, Red Skull (who I think Coates recently brough back in some form), etc.

    Maybe we just see less of it because there are so many characters with ongoings these days that they don't have established nemesis' because they are so new or underdeveloped.

    Thor will probably still have major enemies in the future but not necessarily ones who can believably be as much of a nemesis as Loki was.
    I think everyone i could think of has been covered pretty much, there are some that haven't really changed in such a way that they can't be a bad guy for a hero, but they just aren't used a lot, like Mordo for Strange just isn't used a lot these days, but he does still come up on occasion.
    Strange also has Dormammu, who's more frequently used.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Ross was always Bruce and the Hulks' archenemy. Leader or Abomination or whatnot aren't personal enough. Not like it matters, since modern Hulk writers are generally not interested in firing those guns anyway.
    I feel like Sterns and Blonsky are pretty personal, if not to the extent of Ross.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tien Long View Post
    The first "villain" that came to mind. Yes, he started out as Spider-Man's evil mirror image, but over the decades that has certainly changed into something different. After all of the team-up's and fighting against symbiotes, these two have changed a lot. Rereading Absolute Carnage, I feel that Spider-Man and Venom can no longer be called bitter enemies, but rather unlikely allies. Hell, they're approaching a brotherly type of relationship.
    At least comics-wise.

    Outside the solo movie most people probably still think of Venom as purely a Spider-Man villain thanks to other media.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    You could just have the Mandarin be what he's been in many comics, a Chinese megalomaniac who despises the Communist government and wants a return of imperial Dynasties.
    Yeah, Mandarin's not a red scare villain. He's more of a James Bond villain amped up to Iron Man levels.

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doombot View Post
    You could just have the Mandarin be what he's been in many comics, a Chinese megalomaniac who despises the Communist government and wants a return of imperial Dynasties.
    The problem is that the Communist government these days have tapped into Dynasty nostalgia for tourism and cultural propagandistic reasons, see the movie HERO by Zhang Yimou and read up on issues with that to see where things are at. The Chinese basically see the "Middle Kingdom" as the status-quo and they are selling it to people that they are Middle Kingdom 2.0 and of course they want the people to accept that their past is a centralized bureaucracy run by a single guy who was beloved by the people. That way all those people calling for Democracy are wrong and so on.

    If the idea of Communists appealing to monarchical culture seems odd to you, well that's not without precedent. Stalin was an fanboy of Ivan the Terrible, the Romanian dictator Ceausescu spread the whole Dracula is a Rebel against Turks nonsense that people take seriously in some corners.

    The way to go is to make the Mandarin tied to the KMT or Shanghai gangsters or the Triad and Taiwan, that would be acceptable to the Mainland, but he can't be tied to mainstream Sinophone culture and history. In fact that's probably why the MCU have given him to Shang Chi since that's set in the Chinese diaspora and features Tony Leung, an actor who cut his teeth on Hong Kong and Taiwanese cinema.
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 12-07-2019 at 04:14 PM.

  11. #26
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    Well I am surprised no one made a dc version of this thread.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toxin45 View Post
    Well I am surprised no one made a dc version of this thread.
    It's less of an issue there I think.
    Joker is still Batman's Arch-Foe.
    Luthor is still Superman's.
    Sinestro is still Lantern's.
    In the case of Flash, I guess it's that Professor Zoom guy or Captain Cold.
    Ares is still Wonder Woman's arch-enemy.

  13. #28
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    It's less of an issue there I think.
    Joker is still Batman's Arch-Foe.
    Luthor is still Superman's.
    Sinestro is still Lantern's.
    In the case of Flash, I guess it's that Professor Zoom guy or Captain Cold.
    Ares is still Wonder Woman's arch-enemy.
    Reverse-Flash/Eobard Thawne is the definitive Flash nemesis.

    Cheetah is Wonder Woman’s Archenemy.

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    I'm gonna say Jobbertooth as well. Because Wolverine does not see him as an "arch foe", some much as a repeated annoyance. And that's exactly how he's written. Logan doesn't fear or worry about him. Any so-called "rivalry" they have is just one-sided hating on on Jobber's part. And one-sided beat downs on Logan's part.

    Hell, i'll go so far as to say Jobbertooth doesn't even deserve his alias anymore. Give the name "Sabretooth" to someone who's actually strong.

    When it's so one-sided, arch nemesis doesn't seem to fit, so much as "pest."

  15. #30
    Fantastic Member Doombot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    I'm gonna say Jobbertooth as well. Because Wolverine does not see him as an "arch foe", some much as a repeated annoyance. And that's exactly how he's written. Logan doesn't fear or worry about him. Any so-called "rivalry" they have is just one-sided hating on on Jobber's part. And one-sided beat downs on Logan's part.

    Hell, i'll go so far as to say Jobbertooth doesn't even deserve his alias anymore. Give the name "Sabretooth" to someone who actually is fierce & dangerous.

    When it's so one-sided, arch nemesis doesn't seem to fit, so much as "pest."
    It's too bad, as Sabretooth was cool cool back in the day. He should be a terrifying person to encounter. But to be honest, I don't know why Wolverine would ever worry about anything as he's virtually invincible these days.

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