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  1. #91
    a man who created images dr-brainwave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    Geoff Johns has never seemed to care too much for the originals. He was always trying to flood the group with the second and third generations IMO.
    Unfortunately, yes, Geoff Johns is a very talented writer (i'm a fan of his Hawkman run and Green Lantern run) but as a hardcore fan of the original JSA i can only loath his JSA run, not because of his writing but because of his vision of the JSA.

  2. #92
    a man who created images dr-brainwave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lurk View Post
    The veterans do where passing the torches like candy during the COIE; and Stargirl did joined after most passing had been done. It is a show named after Stargirl after all, not JSA or Starsprangled Kid. Its good that they have somewhat of an eye on a timeline appropriate team setup. And it does not have to mean that the originals are nowhere to be seen. I could envision them to be guest characters with mentoring roles, flashback story hooks or maybe even the odd episode where the old guys need to save the new ones from something.

    Also yeah, a lot of them came back and new ones where never to be heard of. But they do have to start somewhere :P

    Case in point:



    :P

    Hope they will get John Wesley Shipp for that. That would be epic.

    Yes, i understand that too well, but i feel somewhat cheated, i was super excited when they announced that Charles, Rex and Ted were cast, but now i see they are replaced by these kids.... i think nobody wants to see his favorite characters replaced.

    Anyway, like you said this show's title is Stargirl (and i have nothing against Stargirl) and is all about passing the torch, but i'll pass, this show is not for me.

    Hope you'll be entertained by this show.

  3. #93
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    I also wonder why she's doing the "Cyclops pose" ... maybe her lenses retract or transition or something?
    Yeah, I don't think she's blind like the other Mid-Nite's, so she probably doesn't need to have the lenses on 24/7 like they did.

  4. #94
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    Geoff Johns has never seemed to care too much for the originals. He was always trying to flood the group with the second and third generations IMO.
    To be fair his version of the JSA was very tied to the WWII period roots, and most of the originals never had the ability to shrug off age, nor were they frozen in ice like a certain super soldier. That makes it difficult to use many of the original characters as cast members. Johns comic still used the original Green Lantern, Flash, and Wildcat, brought back the original Hawkman via reincarnation, and also started with the sidekick of the original Sandman, and they were still part of the book when he left. So that's 4 originals out of the roster (I'm not counting Hawkgirl since her reincarnation was messed up and she was never really completely Shiera during the run even of they acknowledged it was most likely her soul) plus a 5th who was at least active in that era.

    Now since the show is Stargirl and not JSA, I expect everyone else to be supporting characters who will often be doing their own thing. Plot resolution is probably going to be Courtney's domain, since she is the title character. I'd feel lied to if the plot was always resolved by someone other than the title character outside of a comedy show (where the title character is likely the cause of the plot instead).
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  5. #95
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  6. #96
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    The Wildcat, Hourman and Doctor Mid-Nite advertised seem to be those characters from INFINITY, INC. The Infinitors were not the JSA--it's like the difference between the Teen Titans and the Justice League. Those characters were what I'd call the second wave of INFINITY, INC.--and they were all, I believe, created by Roy Thomas, Danette Thomas and Todd McFarlane. Now, with the exception of Yolanda (whose design wasn't much different from Ted's), the TV producers seem to be avoiding whatever Todd McFarlane designed. Maybe they know that Todd would try to get some royalties from that (if they aren't giving out royalties now).

    The complaint from Infinity fans against the 1999 JSA series was that the Infinitors were mostly ignored and when they were used, they were often disrespected. The exceptions to this might be Silver Scarab/Sandman who was reborn as Dr. Fate and Nuklon who was name-checked as Atom Smasher--but those name changes and their design changes indicate how loathe the JSA writers were to use the original concepts from INFINITY, INC.

    That aside, I liked the 1999 JSA series for most of the run. Geoff Johns did try to squeeze in a few members that didn't really have any right to be there, since they had no connection to the original JSA. However, in the 2007 JUSTICE SOCIETY OF AMERICA series, Johns lost all restraint and just let anyone into the clubhouse, regardless of their pedigree. To me that was not the JSA--it was just your random super-hero super-team.
    “Th-th-th-that's all folks!”

  7. #97
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    I guess this would be where Team Flash realizes the Multiverse still exists (if it happens).

  8. #98
    a man who created images dr-brainwave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    To be fair his version of the JSA was very tied to the WWII period roots, and most of the originals never had the ability to shrug off age, nor were they frozen in ice like a certain super soldier. That makes it difficult to use many of the original characters as cast members. Johns comic still used the original Green Lantern, Flash, and Wildcat, brought back the original Hawkman via reincarnation, and also started with the sidekick of the original Sandman, and they were still part of the book when he left. So that's 4 originals out of the roster (I'm not counting Hawkgirl since her reincarnation was messed up and she was never really completely Shiera during the run even of they acknowledged it was most likely her soul) plus a 5th who was at least active in that era.
    .
    If you mean that Johns had an excuse not to use many of the original key members, then why is he always pushing Rick Tyler to the detriment of Rex? Why did he Bring back Rex in a such dramatic way, during Black reign, just to put him in retirement a few issues later? Why did he transform Johnny Thunder into Jakeem's pet genie? Why did he kill the original Superman during Infinite Crisis? Why had he deliberately ignored that most of the original key members had a valid reason to be alive and to be in a good shape in present day thanks to the Ian Karkull radiations (from All Star Squadron annual 03)?
    According to the JSA roster we've seen in Doomsday Clock 12, some dead JSA kids (Beth Chapel, Yolanda Montez and Grant Emerson) are somehow alive (i'm happy for their fans) but If Johns really cared about the originals, then he'd have most certainly sneaked a few more original key members in that massive roster.

    P.S. Sandy Hawkins and Shiera Saunders have never been members of the original JSA. Sandy and Kendra joined in 1999.

  9. #99
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr-brainwave View Post
    If you mean that Johns had an excuse not to use many of the original key members, then why is he always pushing Rick Tyler to the detriment of Rex? Why did he Bring back Rex in a such dramatic way, during Black reign, just to put him in retirement a few issues later? Why did he transform Johnny Thunder into Jakeem's pet genie? Why did he kill the original Superman during Infinite Crisis? Why had he deliberately ignored that most of the original key members had a valid reason to be alive and to be in a good shape in present day thanks to the Ian Karkull radiations (from All Star Squadron annual 03)?
    According to the JSA roster we've seen in Doomsday Clock 12, some dead JSA kids (Beth Chapel, Yolanda Montez and Grant Emerson) are somehow alive (i'm happy for their fans) but If Johns really cared about the originals, then he'd have most certainly sneaked a few more original key members in that massive roster.

    P.S. Sandy Hawkins and Shiera Saunders have never been members of the original JSA. Sandy and Kendra joined in 1999.
    I never got the impression it was to those characters' detriment, it was to connect the past and the future with involving the past characters with their future successors and in some ways pairing them with their successors (in the case of Johnny and Jakeem).

  10. #100
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr-brainwave View Post
    If you mean that Johns had an excuse not to use many of the original key members, then why is he always pushing Rick Tyler to the detriment of Rex? Why did he Bring back Rex in a such dramatic way, during Black reign, just to put him in retirement a few issues later? Why did he transform Johnny Thunder into Jakeem's pet genie? Why did he kill the original Superman during Infinite Crisis? Why had he deliberately ignored that most of the original key members had a valid reason to be alive and to be in a good shape in present day thanks to the Ian Karkull radiations (from All Star Squadron annual 03)?
    According to the JSA roster we've seen in Doomsday Clock 12, some dead JSA kids (Beth Chapel, Yolanda Montez and Grant Emerson) are somehow alive (i'm happy for their fans) but If Johns really cared about the originals, then he'd have most certainly sneaked a few more original key members in that massive roster.

    P.S. Sandy Hawkins and Shiera Saunders have never been members of the original JSA. Sandy and Kendra joined in 1999.
    Your post sounds like you hate any and all changes. I love the 05 X-Men, but I don't hate Claremont for changing the roster.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  11. #101
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I never got the impression it was to those characters' detriment, it was to connect the past and the future with involving the past characters with their future successors and in some ways pairing them with their successors (in the case of Johnny and Jakeem).
    And you can't connect the past and the future if you don't allow for the future to be on the roster. One of the biggest themes in the JSA under Johns was legacies - those require the occasional passing of the torch. One of my biggest gripes with Batman is how they think allowing any of his sidekicks to grow up and stand on their own makes him too old. I say the refusal to do that makes Batman an utter failure as a mentor.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  12. #102
    a man who created images dr-brainwave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I never got the impression it was to those characters' detriment, it was to connect the past and the future with involving the past characters with their future successors and in some ways pairing them with their successors (in the case of Johnny and Jakeem).
    Connecting the past and the future of two different characters?
    I consider that the past of Johnny doesn't belong to Jakeem and the future of Jakeem doesn't belong to Johnny. (the same goes for the other JSAers)
    When you repalce a character, its always to the detriment of the old one because you deprive him of his future.
    Even if they are related to an established character, i love and respect characters that forge their own identity and establish their own name (like Power Girl/Jade/Obsidian), instead of capitalizing on the name and history of someone else.

  13. #103
    a man who created images dr-brainwave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    And you can't connect the past and the future if you don't allow for the future to be on the roster. One of the biggest themes in the JSA under Johns was legacies - those require the occasional passing of the torch. One of my biggest gripes with Batman is how they think allowing any of his sidekicks to grow up and stand on their own makes him too old. I say the refusal to do that makes Batman an utter failure as a mentor.
    I'm not against "the future" to be on the roster, I'm against "the past" not being on the roster.(and the past is a lot more than Jay, Alan and Ted)
    I'm a huge Infinity Inc fan, the JSA i want to see is a multi generational / family team where the kids work alongside the originals.
    My problem with Johns's JSA is that its all about the kids replacing the originals.
    Last edited by dr-brainwave; 04-06-2020 at 12:27 PM.

  14. #104
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr-brainwave View Post
    Connecting the past and the future of two different characters?
    I consider that the past of Johnny doesn't belong to Jakeem and the future of Jakeem doesn't belong to Johnny. (the same goes for the other JSAers)
    When you repalce a character, its always to the detriment of the old one because you deprive him of his future.
    Even if they are related to an established character, i love and respect characters that forge their own identity and establish their own name (like Power Girl/Jade/Obsidian), instead of capitalizing on the name and history of someone else.
    Quote Originally Posted by dr-brainwave View Post
    I'm not against "the future" to be on the roster, I'm against "the past" not being on the roster.(and the past is a lot more than Jay, Alan and Ted)
    I'm a huge Infinity Inc fan, the JSA i want to see is a multi generational / family team where the kids work alongside the originals.
    My problem with Johns's JSA is that its all about the kids replacing the originals.
    I don't think it was a one-to-one "all the kids replacing the originals," in fact in some instances we did have the kids working with the originals. It was just a mix.

    Maybe it wasn't the exactly way you would have wanted it to be conveyed, but I think it worked and still paid respect to the original members of the team who weren't part of the modern incarnation.

  15. #105
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Johnny Thunder at the JSA roundtable:


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