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  1. #76
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Hickman walks into X-men office. "I am going to make the X-men into a supremacist isolationist cult of bad guys." Marvel "That is a Great idea". Is that what people imagining is happening?
    Okay, I know you're being sarcastic, but considering that Secret Empire was Nick Spencer going "Hey let's turn the character who literally wears the american flag and literally punches Hitler in the face on the cover of his first appearance into a secret fascist all along" and Marvel going "I love it, let's start selling Hydra T-Shirts!", you have more faith in Marvel than I do.

    The truth of what is happening is in the middle, Hickman did this same game with New Avengers/Illuminati. The same exact game and it is working again.
    So does this mean Moira is going to start destroying universes?

  2. #77
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    Okay, I know you're being sarcastic, but considering that Secret Empire was Nick Spencer going "Hey let's turn the character who literally wears the american flag and literally punches Hitler in the face on the cover of his first appearance into a secret fascist all along" and Marvel going "I love it, let's start selling Hydra T-Shirts!", you have more faith in Marvel than I do.



    So does this mean Moira is going to start destroying universes?
    You joke, but I've seen some people suggest that that is what her powers actually do when she dies. Destroy that universe to reset her life. Also, lol Secret Empire.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    1. You putting words in mouth. Most of my post have been very short so there is little way of you knowing how I feel or think. So please keep your assumptions to a minimum. Thank you.
    I have said absolutely nothing about you. Quote me; you can’t. I simply asked you a question. The rest of my post was re: the OP.

    2. If your really interested in who I am referring to look for post in other threads were posters are activity stating either corralling and/or killing people they don't like or agree with. While other posters seem to either be in agreement or apathetic to the extremeness of the post.
    Who specifically is making death threats about other CBR posters, and when will you report them? If that’s who you’re talking about and they exist, report them.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    Okay, I know you're being sarcastic, but considering that Secret Empire was Nick Spencer going "Hey let's turn the character who literally wears the american flag and literally punches Hitler in the face on the cover of his first appearance into a secret fascist all along" and Marvel going "I love it, let's start selling Hydra T-Shirts!", you have more faith in Marvel than I do.
    If you think Krakoa is an evil cult, why not say it in the OP instead of asking others to tell you?

  5. #80
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    A. Just like many cults.
    B. Unless Krakoa is populated by suburban gay couples, I don’t think IVF and surrogacy will be the main sources of reproduction.
    C. Oh, well if Xavier and Magneto said Moira wasn’t important I guess she isn’t — Moira will burn Krakoa to the ground if she doesn’t like how it’s going.

    Xavier is the leader of a powerful nation. Having total transparency with the population is impossible. Hell, he couldn’t even manage that with his students.
    A) wow. So elements of a cult is actually commonplace with aspects of a normal society? Craaaaaazy.

    B) And I doubt we’ll see a bunch of pregnant mutants walking around on the island. Especially for a law that’s more “do it if you want” rather than “get preg’nt or die, mutie!”

    C) lol That isn’t what I was saying. That doesn’t stop Moira from being integral to Krakoa’s creation but, no, she won’t burn down Krakoa because the two have already strayed from her direction. They already have Sinister on the island when Moira told them not to.

    The major secret is something that Xavier wants everyone on Krakoa to know. That’s about as complete that Krakoa will be with each other for now.

  6. #81
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    If you think Krakoa is an evil cult, why not say it in the OP instead of asking others to tell you?
    I don't. I was pointing out that I could believe that Marvel would turn the X-Men into an evil cult to boost sales because they've done similar things before. That doesn't mean I necessarily think it is one. Call me back when the poly coding turns into a flat out harem.

  7. #82
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    You joke, but I've seen some people suggest that that is what her powers actually do when she dies. Destroy that universe to reset her life. Also, lol Secret Empire.
    I would feel so much better if you actually read Powers of X.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    B) And I doubt we’ll see a bunch of pregnant mutants walking around on the island. Especially for a law that’s more “do it if you want” rather than “get preg’nt or die, mutie!”
    We might. •┤Ȧ├• is looking forward to everyone being preggers.




    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    C) lol That isn’t what I was saying. That doesn’t stop Moira from being integral to Krakoa’s creation but, no, she won’t burn down Krakoa because the two have already strayed from her direction. They already have Sinister on the island when Moira told them not to.
    That’s what Moira wanted them to think. She’s still the HBIC, at least until Destiny arrives.

  9. #84
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    I would feel so much better if you actually read Powers of X.
    Why so nasty? My statement was just that I have seen people say that was what they thought could be happening. There's no need for that.

    The point of this topic was LordUltimus asking why people were making the cult comparisons, and for the first couple of pages people were pretty clear. We weren't even going hardcore on 'its all an evil cult!' thing, just explaining where people were getting that idea from. Why so much nastiness? Why come into this topic at all if you're sick of hearing about it?
    Last edited by pkingdom; 12-08-2019 at 03:06 PM.

  10. #85
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    We might. •┤Ȧ├• is looking forward to everyone being preggers.

    His mind. Also I want to see him wielding a giant turkey baster for the ol pump n’ deposit.

    That’s what Moira wanted them to think. She’s still the HBIC, at least until Destiny arrives.
    I’m #TEAMMOIRA until Irene and Ruth come to #%&! shit up.

    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    My statement was just that I have seen people say that was what they thought could be happening. There's no need for that.
    It’s something that’s already been confirmed in Powers of X #6. And House of X #2, too. Technically Powers of X #1.

  11. #86
    Ninpuu - Shinobi Change! Striderblack01's Avatar
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    Well then...

    Shall we go down the list?

    Item T/F New Behavior? (Krakoa-specific) Notes
    Leadership is not accountable to any authorities True True All mutants are accountable to the Council (Krakoan Govt.). But who is the Council accountable to? How was it formed and are there elections?

    Krakoa has a loose accountability to the UN, but are unlikely to comply with UN investigative efforts at the moment due to security concerns and policies.

    Overall, Xavier, Magneto, and all other mutants faced greater accountability before Krakoa, due to the maturity of the already established world governments.
    Leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and/or control members False There appears to be no emotional manipulation from leadership utilizing shame or guilt at this time.
    Leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel False The Krakoan Council just passed their extremely basic set of laws for the citizenry to follow.
    Other than the light psychic payment to the island itself, there appears to be no overt thought or emotional manipulation at this time.
    Group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members True Mixed Xavier himself has at least paid lip-service to the notion that mutants are superior/special in his telepathic speech to the planet. This represents a new development for him and his faction.

    Magneto, Apocalypse, and others prominent members of the Council and government, and the factions they lead, had already exhibited this belief before the nation of Krakoa was created.
    Group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society True False The group does display this mentality in various degrees. Though the Krakoan leadership has paid lip-service to this mentality, it is not a requirement for citizenship, and it is unclear if it is taught or promoted.
    It's adoption appears to be strictly voluntary or semi-cultural.

    Furthermore, given the long hardships between the species, the adoption of this mentality is probably organic (not orchestrated), and was present before the formation of Krakoa.
    Group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary True False Black market drug-dealing, smuggling, and kill squads have been deemed necessary and are an active part in the Krakoan government's establishment.

    Most of this is not new behavior.
    Group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law Mixed False Certain mutants already commanded the devotion of followers before the creation of Krakoa. Now that they're (mostly) under one roof, many of these mutants have prominent roles in the Krakoan government. Furthermore, zealotry may have been organically reinforced - as the creation of a mutant nation away from prejudice and genocide is naturally bound to increase affinity for its founders.

    However, popularity and zealous commitment are different and hard to quantify. It's also difficult to gauge how much of the Kroakoan population is affected. It is safe to assume that zealotry is probable in a significant portion of the population.

    Does the Krakoan leadership manipulate the citizens into feeling this way?
    Is zealotry a goal of the administration?
    It does not appear to be so at this time.
    Group is preoccupied with bringing in new members True True The declaration of Krakoan citizenship as a birthright to all mutants, as well as the on-going efforts to ferry mutants safely to Krakoa, make this true all-around.
    Group is preoccupied with making money True True While the X-men have had various wealthy members who acted as financiers in the past (Xavier, Worthington, Frost, etc.), it is considerably easier to finance an academy than it is to finance a nation.
    As such, the Krakoan government is under logistical pressure to amass wealth and has begun doing so through its pharmaceutical program.
    Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished False There is no evidence that expression of doubt or dissent is punished at this time.
    Mind-altering practices are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s) False While partying (and orgies) can be used to manipulate, there appears to be no orchestration, agenda, or ulterior motives from the Krakoan government regarding these social events at this time.
    Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group False The key word here is requires.

    While there is a logistical distancing from family and friends when moving to another country, isolation is not a requirement for citizenship. In fact, the gates should make it easy for expats to travel back-and-forth to visit with loved ones. There are also no standing mandates regarding personal goals and activities (beyond the laws) at this time.
    Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities Mixed False The average Krakoan citizen is expected to merely follow the rules.

    However, many members of the government are currently expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group. Again, this appears to be largely due to the logistical challenges of building a new nation, and does not appear to be a form of manipulation.

    A similar expectation, for largely similar reasons, has been observed in past mutant groups, camps, and nations.
    Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members True True The Krakoan government does encourage all mutants of the world to live in Krakoa.
    This is a natural conclusion that can be drawn from the forming of the mutant nation, and the citizenship-at-birth-not-birthplace stipulation it negotiated for itself with the UN.
    The most loyal members (the true believers) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. True False There is a notion that mutants who exist outside of Krakoa are vulnerable. This is notion is based on real threats to mutants, and is one of the driving forces behind the creation of Krakoa. As such, this notion is not a fabrication with the intent to manipulate, as is common with cults.

    Additionally, as Krakoa is not the first mutant nation, this notion is not new.


    Final Score: 53.3% (8/15)

    The nation of Krakoa does exhibit some cult-like behavior and practices.
    However, many (but not all) of these are due to the logistics of nation-building and the mistreatment of mutants in the world at large.
    Zealotry and elitism has been observed in the upper echelons of the government.
    Spotty accountability, secrecy, and illicit activity all cast shadows of doubt in the integrity of the government.

    However, no direct overtures to manipulate or indoctrinate the mutant citizenship have been observed at this time.

    It should also be noted that the story is on-going and every issue reveals more information regarding how the nation operates and the daily life of its citizens.


    **Edited: Made some light changes to the formatting and made edits to further clarify the Notes section. Consequently, the Notes commentary revealed that some of the T/F values were inaccurate. The corrections caused the Final Score to increase.**
    Last edited by Striderblack01; 12-08-2019 at 08:16 PM. Reason: Formatting & Clarifying
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  12. #87
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Impressive work… Still all these criteria are about judging whether a group is a cult…
    However, X-men readers knew the different characters before Krakoa.
    If you take in account the past of characters, a change of behaviour may be a sign of indoctrination. (Right, they change of behaviour depending on the author…)

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Impressive work… Still all these criteria are about judging whether a group is a cult…
    However, X-men readers knew the different characters before Krakoa.
    If you take in account the past of characters, a change of behaviour may be a sign of indoctrination. (Right, they change of behaviour depending on the author…)
    Or it could just be a simple response to getting killed in droves day in and day out for years.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  14. #89
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's really well done. Its the kind of thing we all might want to bookmark and maybe update in a month or even week by week. Like, the 'cutting ties' thing. There was an off-hand comment in FA about people looking at them differently for going off island, and the upcoming couple of issues of New Mutants might make shake things up with regards to the new members and dissent stuff. There's that one comment from Apocalypse about the orgies and making new mutants, too.

    But right now its mostly innuendo and just eyebrow raising. The kind of thing to pay more attention to going forward, but not quite enough to point at and the do the bodysnatchers scream.

  15. #90
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Impressive work… Still all these criteria are about judging whether a group is a cult…
    However, X-men readers knew the different characters before Krakoa.
    If you take in account the past of characters, a change of behaviour may be a sign of indoctrination. (Right, they change of behaviour depending on the author…)
    The mutants are in a radically different environment than they've ever been in before. Of course, they would be acting different, but they are still recognizably themselves.

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