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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    To help the thread below is a list of "Characteristics Associated With Cultic Groups" created by a Ph.D.'s who have thoroughly studied them.

    Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups - Revised
    Janja Lalich, Ph.D. & Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.

    Concerted efforts at influence and control lie at the core of cultic groups, programs, and relationships. Many members, former members, and supporters of cults are not fully aware of the extent to which members may have been manipulated, exploited, even abused. The following list of social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioral patterns commonly found in cultic environments may be helpful in assessing a particular group or relationship.

    Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine if there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a cult scale or a definitive checklist to determine if a specific group is a cult. This is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool.

    ‪ -The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

    -Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

    ‪ -Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

    ‪ -The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

    ‪ -The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

    ‪ -The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

    ‪ -The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

    ‪ -The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

    ‪ -The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

    -‪ Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

    ‪ -The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

    ‪- The group is preoccupied with making money.

    ‪ -Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

    -‪ Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

    ‪ -The most loyal members (the true believers) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.


    http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm
    As some of you can see the Current X-Men ,as they are being written , share several of these characteristics. But I'm sure there will still be many deniers due to not wanting to admit what is going on with their favorite characters and considering their is vamped online cult claiming to be "helping others" to cover up their own true natures.

    *shrug* Take a look, discuss, ignore, whatever.
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    Idea's Open Discussion And Growth. Silencing Idea's Confirms Them To Be True In The Minds Of Those Who Hold Them. The Attempt Of Eliminating Idea's Proves You To Be A Fool.

  2. #32
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    A. We see people partying at least every other issue. I don’t think those people are sober.
    B. Normally you need to have sex to reproduce.
    C. I’m convinced Moira, Xavier, and Magneto would black-bag someone who seriously jeopardized Krakoa, even if they were a council member. The council is probably their way of giving the biggest trouble makers the illusion of control.
    D. Yes, and speeches can be powerful tools for influencing people.

    I’m not sure what mutant culture actually is aside from the Krakoan language nobody uses, the vague mutant magic •┤Ȧ├• babbles about, and I guess the resurrections. As for things feeling strange and cultish, Hickman literally said he was doing that on purpose to create tension.
    A) I doubt we’re seeing the exact same mutants partying every issue. There’s always a party going on. Just like any college campus.

    B) The Five. Sinister. IVF. Surrogacy.
    Jonathan: Well, obviously, ‘Make More Mutants’ is a play on ‘No More Mutants’ so any confusion about this comes from me loving the poetry of how the three laws sound when you read them together instead of them being the actual codified laws with restrictions and provisions and what not.

    Saying that, even a strict reading of the law doesn’t change the fact that I showed you three (four if you were watching closely) ways that mutants can reproduce and only one of those is in the ‘traditional’ hetro manner (that’s also leaving out pretty commonplace practices like IVF and surrogacy, which seem to me to support the spirit of the law).
    C) Xavier and Magneto already barred Moira from having an importance on Krakoa and are probably gonna soon break their biggest no-no by bringing back memories pre-cogs. There’s been a completely made-up perception of Xavier that denotes maliciousness and dark tactics at every turn but as Hickman has characterized him, he is a man who’s barely let go of his dream and wants eventual complete transparency on Krakoa.

    D) You hear that, Jeansus? Your days are numbered.

    Hickman said he had been trying to distance mutants from humanity or give us an outsider feel. But to think that he’s writing all of this to truly make the Mutants seem like deranged cultists is something else entirely and not something he ever stated.
    Last edited by Tycon; 12-08-2019 at 02:48 AM.

  3. #33
    Mighty Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmark View Post
    If the dried husks/empty vessels of all the mutant prisoners buried inside Krakoa are found then it will definitely be a cult scandal unlike any seen in MU.
    Oh Krakoa is definitely festing on Sabretooth maniacal psychic thoughts. I had not thought about that.

  4. #34
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Hickman walks into X-men office. "I am going to make the X-men into a supremacist isolationist cult of bad guys." Marvel "That is a Great idea". Is that what people imagining is happening?


    I don't know what to say anymore nobody is telling people that vibes they are feeling is wrong. The story is suppose to create multiple feelings the only way someone is wrong on this is if they believe that the story is leading in only ONE way. Hickman is playing a bunch of people like a fiddle, Without "the questionable elements" this just a straight up boring superhero story . Hickman has manage to make a boring superhero story where the good guy X-men beats clear bad guy Orchis into something a little deeper because a bunch of you are now doubting if the X-men are really the good guys. Without the sleight of hand that is happening in set up this mostly pedestrian basic ass superhero stuff. But since the writer is playing Jedi mind tricks on some people we are have silly discussion if Kitty is more cruel now because of Krakoa or vaguish poorly structure Storm sentence makes her supremacist now. It is great work by Hickman and company that so much nothing is being used cause discussion and add layers to a story that is isn't very complex.


    The truth of what is happening is in the middle, Hickman did this same game with New Avengers/Illuminati. The same exact game and it is working again.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 12-08-2019 at 03:02 AM.

  5. #35
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    No it’s not a cult. For starters they are free to go wherever they want whenever they want; we saw portals form Krakoa to every place of hearth, that’s the opposite of the enclosed nature of a cult.

    Yes they party a lot, I don’t know what kind of life people live but you don’t need to be in a cult to party a lot; they don’t have to work so they have a lot of free time, and after 10 years of insecurity and decimation they finally have a secure place, so I think it’s normal they are happy and want to gather together and party, also I didn’t see all these alcohol and drugs, people always want everything on page to be official and then they go and imply when it works for them.

    The resurrection ritual is not something that happens every time, we already saw other people resurrected without ritual. In that case it was more a war heroes coming back after saving the nation. People were excited? Well, I think that, if any nation would find a way to resurrect its soldiers after winning a war, you would see the same thing happening. How would you feel after seeing a friend you thought dead come back alive? Depressed? Bored? Apathetic?

    The fact that everyone is happy. First, we already saw not everyone has the same opinion, Wolverine and Quentin Quire for example have very different opinions in X-Force. People fixated with this cult thing expect the stories being focused on showing Krakoa it’s not a cult, but well, it’s not the focus of the stories basically because it’s just a fringe interpretation. Also, having different opinions doesn’t mean people can’t be happy on Krakoa, these are people that in 10 years watched their population go from millions to hundreds, millions of them killed mercilessly, now they have a safe place, even if they don’t agree 100% with everything, I still expect them to support it. In Israel there are people that support the aggressive expansive politics of the country, and people that are against it and want a peaceful resolution and a fair sharing of the land with Palestinians, doesn’t mean they hate their nation or want to leave it, they dissent as in any democracy.

    Xavier and Magneto are the leader of the nation, so they have to unite their people, that’s why they talk like that. If Krakoa it’s a cult because of Xavier and Magneto tone, well, then the USA are a cult too, just liste to any politician ever speaking to Americans: the great nation, the American spirit, the America hero, the greatest country ever etc.

    I think people are confused because they lack a frame of reference. They don’t know what happens when a new country is born, how it is done, what is effect on the people mindset and reaction, how people get together and so on. Cults instead are mainstream, so it’s easier for them to just see some elements that may appear cultish and say “it’s a cult”. They see some hippie element and some religious element and they go cult, ignoring that not all hippies or religious people were cultists, just a little minority.

    It wouldn’t be weird if in time cults formed inside Krakoa, like it happens in any large, composite group of people, but it’s not the focus of the story. Krakoa is still in its infancy as a country, it has a few months of life at most, I really don’t get why people expect it to have already all the dynamics of an established long lived country (currents, organized dissent, etc.) it’s totally unrealistic.
    Last edited by PeterParked; 12-08-2019 at 04:00 AM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterParked View Post
    No itís not a cult. For starters they are free to go wherever they want whenever they want; we saw portals form Krakoa to every place of hearth, thatís the opposite of the enclosed nature of a cult.

    Yes they party a lot, I donít know what kind of life people live but you donít need to be in a cult to party a lot; they donít have to work so they have a lot of free time, and after 10 years of insecurity and decimation they finally have a secure place, so I think itís normal they are happy and want to gather together and party, also I didnít see all these alcohol and drugs, people always want everything on page to be official and then they go and imply when it works for them.

    The resurrection ritual is not something that happens every time, we already saw other people resurrected without ritual. In that case it was more a war heroes coming back after saving the nation. People were excited? Well, I think that, if any nation would find a way to resurrect its soldiers after winning a war, you would see the same thing happening. How would you feel after seeing a friend you thought dead come back alive? Depressed? Bored? Apathetic?

    The fact that everyone is happy. First, we already saw not everyone has the same opinion, Wolverine and Quentin Quire for example have very different opinions in X-Force. People fixated with this cult thing expect the stories being focused on showing Krakoa itís not a cult, but well, itís not the focus of the stories basically because itís just a fringe interpretation. Also, having different opinions doesnít mean people canít be happy on Krakoa, these are people that in 10 years watched their population go from millions to hundreds, millions of them killed mercilessly, now they have a safe place, even if they donít agree 100% with everything, I still expect them to support it. In Israel there are people that support the aggressive expansive politics of the country, and people that are against it and want a peaceful resolution and a fair sharing of the land with Palestinians, doesnít mean they hate their nation or want to leave it, they dissent as in any democracy.

    Xavier and Magneto are the leader of the nation, so they have to unite their people, thatís why they talk like that. If Krakoa itís a cult because of Xavier and Magneto tone, well, then the USA are a cult too, just liste to any politician ever speaking to Americans: the great nation, the American spirit, the America hero, the greatest country ever etc.

    I think people are confused because they lack a frame of reference. They donít know what happens when a new country is born, how it is done, what is effect on the people mindset and reaction, how people get together and so on. Cults instead are mainstream, so itís easier for them to just see some elements that may appear cultish and say ďitís a cultĒ. They see some hippie element and some religious element and they go cult, ignoring that not all hippies or religious people were cultists, just a little minority.

    It wouldnít be weird if in time cults formed inside Krakoa, like it happens in any large, composite group of people, but itís not the focus of the story. Krakoa is still in its infancy as a country, it has a few months of life at most, I really donít get why people expect it to have already all the dynamics of an established long lived country (currents, organized dissent, etc.) itís totally unrealistic.
    Even if it doesn't tick all the boxes, there's something strange. Strange if you count the continuity and remember the characters had much more personality than that. Yes, Quentin and LoganÖ but except them?
    Mayibe, the artwork adds something to this cultish vibe. I never saw the characters so empty and two-dimensionalÖ
    "Ö something strong and soft and green,
    thrusting through the dead and petrified grayness."
    Alan Moore.

    If I offended you, be assured that it wasn't my intention. English is not my first language.

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    I think that we are so used to mutants dividing and having schisms in case of any event that seeing them capable of collaborating is strange to us.

    Like "Wow, they behave like adults."

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    To help the thread below is a list of "Characteristics Associated With Cultic Groups" created by a Ph.D.'s who have thoroughly studied them.



    As some of you can see the Current X-Men ,as they are being written , share several of these characteristics. But I'm sure there will still be many deniers due to not wanting to admit what is going on with their favorite characters and considering their is vamped online cult claiming to be "helping others" to cover up their own true natures.

    *shrug* Take a look, discuss, ignore, whatever.
    Now that's a very good point. In fact, I can already point out a few examples of where I've seen bits of these outside of the resurrection rituals.

    The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law --Xavier for sure, even Moira for Xavier and Magneto. Magneto's even preaching this tone when he declares himself a god in HOX/POX and X-Men #1.

    Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished. --Scott in HOX #5 where he comes to Xavier and Magneto to express how he has questions and doubts. Xavier meets this with a sort of patronising "Oh, of course you do, but you need to put these aside for your family." Same, to a certain extent, with Dazzler to Kwannon when she speaks of how "There's Joy here. Embrace it."

    The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity). --And unfortunately I'm willing to admit this bleeds back into the X-Men's early conception. The big one here though is groups of people flocking to Magneto in X-Men #1 excitedly asking "Tell us how you defeated the humans!!", the newfound sense of pride bleeds over, for some, into outright supremacy in how their powers immediately put them above the rest of the world.

    The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society. --Definitely seeing this throughout the language used in X-Men #1, particularly Storm's aggressive referral to "Man" coupled with her immediate concern about "lifting up her own" (I don't want anyone getting down my throat, by the way, about how I'm suggesting this is a bad thing. I'm pointing to the context of this, here.) There's also the more broader divisive language of how everyone outside of Krakoa is referred to as "The humans!" and, well, Quire.

    The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities). --Unfortunately this is a big one which does, again, bleed into the early ethos of the X-Men; the mission statement behind Krakoa as a whole--taking a pragmatic approach.

    The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members. --That's the big one which is giving off these vibes in the New Mutants #3 preview. I.E, Armour just can't be happy unless she's got everyone around her. Plus, I suppose, you could argue the preoccupation with the new population boom via resurrection and, yeah, even Kurt's "Make more mutants" law. Babies = new citizens or 'members'.

    The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion. --again, seen this in
    shades of HOX #5 where Scott approaches Charles and Magneto, plus Dazzler's line to Kwannon.

    Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities. --You could argue this as being the service to Krakoa, the mutants-first approach, ect.

    Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members. The most loyal members (the true believers) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.
    ---These two will be the deciding factors, I find, if and when we see them.

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Now that's a very good point. In fact, I can already point out a few examples of where I've seen bits of these outside of the resurrection rituals.

    The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law --Xavier for sure, even Moira for Xavier and Magneto. Magneto's even preaching this tone when he declares himself a god in HOX/POX and X-Men #1.

    Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished. --Scott in HOX #5 where he comes to Xavier and Magneto to express how he has questions and doubts. Xavier meets this with a sort of patronising "Oh, of course you do, but you need to put these aside for your family." Same, to a certain extent, with Dazzler to Kwannon when she speaks of how "There's Joy here. Embrace it."

    The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity). --And unfortunately I'm willing to admit this bleeds back into the X-Men's early conception. The big one here though is groups of people flocking to Magneto in X-Men #1 excitedly asking "Tell us how you defeated the humans!!", the newfound sense of pride bleeds over, for some, into outright supremacy in how their powers immediately put them above the rest of the world.

    The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society. --Definitely seeing this throughout the language used in X-Men #1, particularly Storm's aggressive referral to "Man" coupled with her immediate concern about "lifting up her own" (I don't want anyone getting down my throat, by the way, about how I'm suggesting this is a bad thing. I'm pointing to the context of this, here.) There's also the more broader divisive language of how everyone outside of Krakoa is referred to as "The humans!" and, well, Quire.

    The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities). --Unfortunately this is a big one which does, again, bleed into the early ethos of the X-Men; the mission statement behind Krakoa as a whole--taking a pragmatic approach.

    The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members. --That's the big one which is giving off these vibes in the New Mutants #3 preview. I.E, Armour just can't be happy unless she's got everyone around her. Plus, I suppose, you could argue the preoccupation with the new population boom via resurrection and, yeah, even Kurt's "Make more mutants" law. Babies = new citizens or 'members'.

    The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion. --again, seen this in
    shades of HOX #5 where Scott approaches Charles and Magneto, plus Dazzler's line to Kwannon.

    Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities. --You could argue this as being the service to Krakoa, the mutants-first approach, ect.

    Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members. The most loyal members (the true believers) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.
    ---These two will be the deciding factors, I find, if and when we see them.

    You do realize that some of things can by match up with the X-men status quo before they reached on Krakoa. Whatever makes you guys feel better but dude collecting kids and living away from people in compound with him as undisputed leader and father figure and showing hostility to government laws and authority. Just saying

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    You do realize that some of things can by match up with the X-men status quo before they reached on Krakoa. Whatever makes you guys feel better but dude collecting kids and living away from people in compound with him as undisputed leader and father figure and showing hostility to government laws and authority. Just saying
    Yes, which is why I pointed that out in my response.
    Last edited by Domino_Dare-Doll; 12-08-2019 at 05:25 AM.

  11. #41
    Astonishing Member Vegan Daddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Hickman walks into X-men office. "I am going to make the X-men into a supremacist isolationist cult of bad guys." Marvel "That is a Great idea". Is that what people imagining is happening?


    I don't know what to say anymore nobody is telling people that vibes they are feeling is wrong. The story is suppose to create multiple feelings the only way someone is wrong on this is if they believe that the story is leading in only ONE way. Hickman is playing a bunch of people like a fiddle, Without "the questionable elements" this just a straight up boring superhero story . Hickman has manage to make a boring superhero story where the good guy X-men beats clear bad guy Orchis into something a little deeper because a bunch of you are now doubting if the X-men are really the good guys. Without the sleight of hand that is happening in set up this mostly pedestrian basic ass superhero stuff. But since the writer is playing Jedi mind tricks on some people we are have silly discussion if Kitty is more cruel now because of Krakoa or vaguish poorly structure Storm sentence makes her supremacist now. It is great work by Hickman and company that so much nothing is being used cause discussion and add layers to a story that is isn't very complex.


    The truth of what is happening is in the middle, Hickman did this same game with New Avengers/Illuminati. The same exact game and it is working again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    You do realize that some of things can by match up with the X-men status quo before they reached on Krakoa. Whatever makes you guys feel better but dude collecting kids and living away from people in compound with him as undisputed leader and father figure and showing hostility to government laws and authority. Just saying
    The OP asked how Krakoa could be seen as a cult. Some of the similarities are undeniable. I don’t think anybody here thinks mutants are crazy bad people now and I think we’re all aware of what Hickman’s trying to do. Relax.

  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    The OP asked how Krakoa could be seen as a cult. Some of the similarities are undeniable. I don’t think anybody here thinks mutants are crazy bad people now and I think we’re all aware of what Hickman’s trying to do. Relax.
    Plus, it's actually kind of a relief to see a thread dedicated to the topic open up finally. Makes for a better critical analysis as well as just being a healthy thing to talk about/consider.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Now that's a very good point. In fact, I can already point out a few examples of where I've seen bits of these outside of the resurrection rituals.

    The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law --Xavier for sure, even Moira for Xavier and Magneto. Magneto's even preaching this tone when he declares himself a god in HOX/POX and X-Men #1.
    Moira does the opposite of that. In her diaries she worries that Xavier and Magneto are taking wrong decisions. And she worries that her influence is bad for Xavier. Magneto talks about himself so it’s a bit ridiculous to consider him both the leader and the group that consider himself a god Additionally you say below that Scott questions Xaviers, so much for zealous and unquestioning commitment. And we have Wolverine showing disagreement with Magneto ideas etc. And there is a council of very diverse persons taking decisions not a leader, so again, no cult. They even say the council is a temporary measure so probably the decision process will become even more representative. There is not even a leader to follow unquestionably.

    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished. --Scott in HOX #5 where he comes to Xavier and Magneto to express how he has questions and doubts. Xavier meets this with a sort of patronising "Oh, of course you do, but you need to put these aside for your family." Same, to a certain extent, with Dazzler to Kwannon when she speaks of how "There's Joy here. Embrace it."
    There is no scene like that in HOX 5, but even if there was saying “of course you do” it’s literally the opposite of discouraging doubts, it’s admitting that having doubts it’s totally normal, that there is a greater good though. Nothing to do with discouraging doubts, if he said “no what we are doing is 100% the right thing” it would have been discouraging doubt or dissident, instead he admits what they do can be questioned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity). --And unfortunately I'm willing to admit this bleeds back into the X-Men's early conception. The big one here though is groups of people flocking to Magneto in X-Men #1 excitedly asking "Tell us how you defeated the humans!!", the newfound sense of pride bleeds over, for some, into outright supremacy in how their powers immediately put them above the rest of the world.
    Please it’s not “people” is children, they are fascinated by Magneto because they are children. And curiously you omit that in the same scene Cyclops and Lorna even make fun of that and say it start to be embarrassing, so much for everyone thinking their leaders are perfect and not questioning what they say/so, the literally laugh about it, and justify it with a “he waited so much for that, let him enjoy it for a bit” the scene as a whole shows the opposite of your “cut” of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society. --Definitely seeing this throughout the language used in X-Men #1, particularly Storm's aggressive referral to "Man" coupled with her immediate concern about "lifting up her own" (I don't want anyone getting down my throat, by the way, about how I'm suggesting this is a bad thing. I'm pointing to the context of this, here.) There's also the more broader divisive language of how everyone outside of Krakoa is referred to as "The humans!" and, well, Quire.
    Quire has always been a hothead with a superiority complex. But again, in the same scene we have Wolverine telling him how humans and mutants are just competing for the same resources, that mutants are no gods despite what Magneto say (again so much for not questioning leaders). What do you want? That everyone, literally ten of thousands of persons, has the same opinion about humans? Wouldn’t it be a cult then??

    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities). --Unfortunately this is a big one which does, again, bleed into the early ethos of the X-Men; the mission statement behind Krakoa as a whole--taking a pragmatic approach.
    What are they doing that would have considered reprehensible or unethical before? Saving mutant children? Saving mutant in general? It’s all they are doing in the all the DoX books.

    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members. --That's the big one which is giving off these vibes in the New Mutants #3 preview. I.E, Armour just can't be happy unless she's got everyone around her. Plus, I suppose, you could argue the preoccupation with the new population boom via resurrection and, yeah, even Kurt's "Make more mutants" law. Babies = new citizens or 'members'.
    Nobody is forced to make children. Mutants to not be a cult should be the only people that are forbidden to procreate? They have a way to bring back millions of people that were brutally killed and they shouldn’t do it? This really doesn’t make sense at all. Should also avoid to free mutants from terrorist organizations or anti mutanti governments then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion. --again, seen this in
    shades of HOX #5 where Scott approaches Charles and Magneto, plus Dazzler's line to Kwannon.
    I already replied to that, but anyway, Dazzler doesn’t shame Kwannon, she encourages her to embrace the peace they have she doesn’t tell her “hey everyone is happy here, you must have a problem, why you can’t be happy as anyone else?” And Xavier acknowledges Cyclops doubts’ validity when he says “of course you have” it’s the opposite of shaming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities. --You could argue this as being the service to Krakoa, the mutants-first approach, ect.
    Then I guess they have always been a cult, they spent their lives fighting for Xavier dream. Maybe they were more of a cult before because now they get to enjoy life (as shown in the partying on the island and on X-Men 1 with the Summers family gathering.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members. The most loyal members (the true believers) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.
    ---These two will be the deciding factors, I find, if and when we see them.
    In the first issue of X-Men we see Cyclops and family socializing with humans (Corsar and co). They have portals to go everywhere in the world and everyone is free to come and go. Kitty flirts with a human tattoo artist. Jubilee lives with her human baby. The first thing New Mutants decide to do is leaving the group to go on an adventure, and Scott helps them reach humans to go with. Krakoa is a safe place where they can live, not where they have to live. We already saw they have no issues interacting with non mutants.
    Last edited by PeterParked; 12-08-2019 at 06:10 AM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterParked View Post
    I think people are confused because they lack a frame of reference. They don’t know what happens when a new country is born, how it is done, what is effect on the people mindset and reaction, how people get together and so on.
    Ok, if we’re going to frame Krakoa as the birth of a nation, then can we acknowledge that every human government, to varying degrees, murders, tortures, and schemes in order to maintain and consolidate power. I think it’ll be dishonest if Krakoa is any different, especially considering some of the members on the ruling council.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    A) I doubt weíre seeing the exact same mutants partying every issue. Thereís always a party going on. Just like any college campus.

    B) The Five. Sinister. IVF. Surrogacy.


    C) Xavier and Magneto already barred Moira from having an importance on Krakoa and are probably gonna soon break their biggest no-no by bringing back memories pre-cogs. Thereís been a completely made-up perception of Xavier that denotes maliciousness and dark tactics at every turn but as Hickman has characterized him, he is a man whoís barely let go of his dream and wants eventual complete transparency on Krakoa.

    D) You hear that, Jeansus? Your days are numbered.
    A. Just like many cults.
    B. Unless Krakoa is populated by suburban gay couples, I donít think IVF and surrogacy will be the main sources of reproduction.
    C. Oh, well if Xavier and Magneto said Moira wasnít important I guess she isnít ó Moira will burn Krakoa to the ground if she doesnít like how itís going.

    Xavier is the leader of a powerful nation. Having total transparency with the population is impossible. Hell, he couldnít even manage that with his students.

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