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Thread: Babs and love

  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Default Babs and love

    So far Babs most common love interest is dick or Bruce. Dick generally still paired with Starfire. Does it make sense to have Bruce as her love interest? I mean is there anyone outside of the Batfamily?

  2. #2
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    So far Babs most common love interest is dick or Bruce. Dick generally still paired with Starfire. Does it make sense to have Bruce as her love interest? I mean is there anyone outside of the Batfamily?
    No, no, no. Never Bruce. She has history with Dick and it's kind icky to date his dad. Made worse if it goes DCAU-style where Dick is very definitely made the "loser" and inadequate. And really maybe even a stand-in for Bruce. Yech.

    I would not ever pair her with anyone inside the Batfam, because, as I said, I think her dating anyone in her ex's family is kinda gross.

    Secondary choices with history are Ted Kord (which nothing every came of and was mutual non-pursuit of relationship before it was completely retconned to Ted being in love with her) or Jason Bard (quite a good character pre-COIE, and still fine to me when I saw him post-COIE, but trashed in New52). I know there was at least a flirtation with Nick Gage, but I don't know him well enough to comment.

    Some like Dinah, but I do not, because Barbara has a long history of being straight and I don't like retconned sexual orientations. Also, I feel pairing up characters that were good friends but had no romantic interest and it's an expression of platonic friendships being devalued and only romance treated as important/meaninful (I will also defend a platonic Dick/Donna relation to the end - there are so few opposite sex platonic friendships between heterosexual characters and I really hate theirs was basically dropped and Wally seemingly took the bff role).

    I will generally pick Dick. I like them in the Dixon-era so much (not so much in some other versions, but that's usually because I don't like their characterizations in those ones). But if not him, then a Jason Bard that's more old-school or a new original character would work.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 12-08-2019 at 08:11 PM.

  3. #3
    Incredible Member Rakiduam's Avatar
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    My opinion on Barbara's love life is limited to the belief that no matter the situation they have to stop paring her with one member of the bat family before they start paring her with another. If is Bruce, then fine Bruce, if is Dick or Jason or Tim fine too but pick one, anything else, degrate the characters and all their relationships among each others. Honestly I still can't believe Bruce cared so little about Dick that would start dating his girfried/exgirfriend.

    Outside that I thought she and Ted would have make a great couple once upon a time.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    See I wouldn't mind Babs and Bruce so much if it's in the Bronze Age where they only have 3 years age difference, both views Dick as a sidekick (there's a cover story where they try to get Dick to side with them), Dick and Babs never date, Babs isn't Gordon's daughter and I didn't grow up on DickxBabs

    In other words never, probably

  5. #5
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Bruce is only a love interest for shock value. It’s gross, and everyone know it. Cause that is it’s point. To make people feel uncomfortable and invoke a reaction.

    Dick and Babs is cute, I’m a fan of it, but it’s a double edge sword at times.

    Babs LIs kind of suck. Babs is super hot, don’t get me wrong, but she also suppose to be kind of a nerd. While Dick is often regarded as one of DC’s hottest guys. So when she has that in her rolodex, the alternatives just try to subvert it rather than compete with it. So her options becomes shock value or bores (normal people).
    Last edited by Godlike13; 12-08-2019 at 11:23 PM.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    I feel like my biggest issue with Babs and Dick, is less them being together as characters themselves, and moreso as a result of New 52. Just because even though they play up their relationship as a big deal, we've never actually seen them be together in this universe, so it ends up feeling more hollow. And plus, the back and forth "will they won't they" has been some of the most irritating for me personally in any comic series.

    It goes:
    We should try again but he keeps babying her so no, okay there'll never be a good time so they'll just do it, ok nevermind he left, oops Dick is dead but actually he's secretly alive, oh hey he shows up and suddenly starts flirting with her even though she's annoyed and already in a relationship, welp they break up and now she's jealous he's in a relationship, now he breaks up and they think about doing it then go nah, then they decide to try and reconcile again, but woopsy Ric time.

    I'd be all for seeing them be together, if they actually went for it and didn't just do more teasing. I did like her and Luke Fox together for the short time that was, if they had to pick someone to stick with he'd work well.
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  7. #7
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    Grifter

    Its straight out of nowhere, he's a bad boy and Jim Lee will ensure it has more traction then anyone else.

  8. #8
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Babs and Luke are too similar as concepts and characters. There is sense to them on paper, but in practice they were just boring. There was no real story there. Just two like minded people with similar interests and similar backgrounds, doing similar things on a similar path.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 12-09-2019 at 02:34 AM.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Dick is in many ways on top here: he has a long and rich history with her, both as a romantic interest and with them working as a team. He has also been with her for some of Babs's most important stories (like Dixon's Birds of Prey run).

    The only character that comes close when it comes to shared history is Dinah, and it's ironically also because of Dixon. He tried so hard to suppress any sort of romantic read of their relationship, and failed utterly in doing so. Instead it truly oozes through the pages.

    Simone has also hinted at feelings between Poison Ivy and Babs, but it has stayed as little more than hints.

    I don't agree with Tzigone on changing sexual orientations. First, there are people who realise they are bisexual in adult age. Second, in Babs's case it is partly a done deal already, due to Dixon's BoP run. Now, I can agree with that right now there is a trend of making (especially female) characters bisexual and not really following up on it, and that any such relationship or reveal should be done with respect and care, but in the case of Babs a lot of the groundwork is already in place. Heck, there is arguably more groundwork in story being done for bisexual Babs than there is for bisexual Diana.

    Come to think of it, DC seems to have a general problem with relationships for their female lead characters, like that they have no clue as an institution on how to handle their relationships.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  10. #10
    Incredible Member Blue22's Avatar
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    I have a hard time seeing Babs with anyone but Dick. Even if the constant back and forth on their relationship has grown VERY tiresome. However....

    I'm usually pretty 50/50 on this but lately I've been leaning more towards thinking Dick would probably be happier with Kory. In which case, I don't know who Babs would be with. If she decides to be with anyone at all (because her just deciding to be single is a totally acceptable option).

    She and Luke may not be as fun of a pairing but, if not Dick, I could see those two being a long-term thing.
    Last edited by Blue22; 12-09-2019 at 07:12 AM.

  11. #11
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    See I wouldn't mind Babs and Bruce so much if it's in the Bronze Age where they only have 3 years age difference, both views Dick as a sidekick (there's a cover story where they try to get Dick to side with them), Dick and Babs never date, Babs isn't Gordon's daughter and I didn't grow up on DickxBabs

    In other words never, probably
    Well, the cover of that story is very misleading (shocking, right?) if it's the one I'm thinking of (which is 1967) - Batman got himself in a situation where he was exposed to some sort of swamp fever in a villain-apprehension they were all part of. Realizing he was exposed (and would collapse as soon as incubation period was over), but would never slow down even though he knew he was going to be ill, Robin and Batgirl came up with the plan for Robin to work with her. I think the logic is that Batman would be where Robin was so both would be present when he collapsed, but honestly, I'm not sure about that. But they were co-conspirators there, rather than Barbara thinking of Robin as a sidekick.

    Given future plot directions, it's a bit amusing that in the issue, when Bruce thinks Robin is abandoning him for Batgirl, he wrongly thinks Robin must have a crush on Batgirl.

    The 1970s and the Batman Family actually gave the first real teasings of Robin/Batgirl. It was when he was in college and was at least somewhat more fanservice than real intent, IMO. But after that era, I'd have been against any Batman/Batgirl.

    I can't really see Babs with anyone but Dick. Even if the constant back and forth on their relationship has grown VERY tiresome. However....
    So tiresome. Not just with them, but with so many couples. It's irritating. But TPTB think a settled couple has no drama. For me, it's more like I have to ignore huge swaths to ship any of the couples they do this with, because if they couldn't make it work the last three times, why the heck would it work this time?

    I'm usually pretty 50/50 on this but lately I've been leaning more towards thinking Dick would probably be happier with Kory.
    I went into that one with DickBabs glasses on. I already shipped my ship before I met Kory. I thought there was a good storyline in the pre-COIE days showing that they were not compatible. A bittersweet "love isn't enough" story because of different values/cultures. But then that was ditched when she came back after her wedding and hooked up with him again. The reconciliation was poor story and made the entire lead up to the separation entirely meaningless. But I'm honest enough to admit that if I had shipped Dick/Kory, I'd have just disregarded the storyline that poked holes in their relationship instead of being annoyed at the one that got them back together.

    She and Luke may not be as fun of a pairing but, if not Dick, I could see those two being a long-term thing.
    I can't really comment on that one. I have read so little of New52 Dick or Barbara because I was so peeved about the de-aging. I also didn't care for characterization in what I did see. I've heard Barbara, at least, got some years back, so maybe I'll check in on her gain sometime. But avoiding the character meant I never saw her with Luke.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 12-09-2019 at 07:08 AM.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member The Kid's Avatar
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    I loved Dick and Babs but that was primarily pre-New 52 and I specifically loved Nightwing and Oracle together especially with Babs being a few years older than him. Haven't dug their Nightwing/Batgirl dynamic at all.. Other than that, I agree her best relationship would be with Dinah
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  13. #13
    I'm at least a C-Lister! exile001's Avatar
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    Babs and Bruce should NEVER be a thing, it is creepy and wrong on so many levels.

    Inside the Bat-family, I've always been a fan of Dick and Barbara. DC allowed it pre-Infinite Crisis and the fan-bases were mostly happy and it didn't take anything away from either character.

    We're getting Bat/Cat soon, so maybe DC will learn that a powerful couples comic can work. I mean, how great would a twice a month title starring the two be? It could be Batgirl/Nightwing issue one and Nightwing/Batgirl on alternating issues.

    That said, there's nothing wrong with Jason Bard and I'd totally be open to seeing a new, compelling love interest. Maybe a reformed Killer Moth...?
    Just. Be. Nice.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Dick and Barbara are in the exact same situation. They are locked together as each others primary love interest but are also each solo characters with their own book. So it is difficult to actually have the two date and have them move past this "will they won't they" dynamic they find themselves in. Since neither solo writer really controls the other character and it is easier to keep love interests as ones contained in their own solo books the individual creators can control. So each have had this constant rotation of love interests that drop in and out who are never really a threat to be long lasting love interests.

    It does make their current dynamic very frustrating. I don't mind Dick and Babs, but I've grown very tried of it and have fallen into more indifference because of how stagnant it has become. I mean it is very rare for two characters with solo books, especially books as long lasting as Nightwing and Batgirl, to actually date each other in comics. It doesn't really happen very often. So I don't really know how they move past their current dynamic unless you stop one of them from being a solo character anymore to give a creator control of both, but that would be a downgrade none of their fans would really want.

    As for Dick and Starfire they haven't really dated in nearly two decades in the comics. Dick only gets paired with her when there are Titans adaptations outside of the comics, which there are a lot of, but that hasn't been the case in comics for a long time.

  15. #15
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Dc often seems to have issues with Batfam and love. I mean it seems Batman can be the only one who can have love interested

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