Babs and love

[kjn]

Dick and Barbara are in the exact same situation. They are locked together as each others primary love interest but are also each solo characters with their own book. So it is difficult to actually have the two date and have them move past this "will they won't they" dynamic they find themselves in. Since neither solo writer really controls the other character and it is easier to keep love interests as ones contained in their own solo books the individual creators can control.

I'd say that is a convenient excuse, but one that doesn't hold up. Off the top of my head, I can think of three or four novels with strong romance—or other important personal interactions—elements that are co-written, and I'm not even a dedicated romance reader. Just decide that they are a couple, and give the writers the creative freedom to handle it. In effect, they'd be important secondary characters in each others books.

[Tzigone]

In effect, they'd be important secondary characters in each others books.

Didn't that kinda happen in the 1990s? At least for Barbara in Nightwing's book.

[kjn]

Didn't that kinda happen in the 1990s? At least for Barbara in Nightwing's book.

Yup, and Nightwing had some great moments in Birds of Prey as well. Though now that I check, it was Chuck Dixon writing both of those books.

[Tzigone]

Yup, and Nightwing had some great moments in Birds of Prey as well. Though now that I check, it was Chuck Dixon writing both of those books.

And he was writing Robin, too. At least it made for consistency in characterization across books. Could have lived without the copious number of crossover stories where you couldn't read one title and understand the story, but that was present elsewhere, too.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

Babs and Dick. It's a good fit. Them each having their own book by different writers makes it tough. Plus Bab's seems kind of on the outside in Rebirth, her book isn't as tightly connected. Though really the Batbooks have not been tightly connected since Denny was the controller of the Batman family books.

[Rac7d*]

Dick and Babs have the same problem as Bruce and selina its been so long they jsut need to do it.
Godbless Rogue and Gambit

[AmiMizuno]

I mean with Dick there is actually three girls he can be with which I wish dc would have actually explored more Babs, Kory it Donna. They never really care with anyone beside Bruce

[Mistah K88]

In the case of the Bat family, Dick is fine. I don't have a problem with Babs having a crush on Batman prior to working as Batgirl, but I feel that her infatuation with Batman becomes a "don't meet your heroes" situation as she works with the caped crusader.

As far as civilians we have Jason Bard, and if we want to bring other continuities in Sam Young, who she ends up married to in Batman Beyond.

[Nite-Wing]

I prefer Babs and Bruce
Its the biggest double standard ever that people act outraged and call Babs and Bruce creepy or try to play up their difference in age but at the same time don't bat an eyelash at her wanting to hook up with her professor or shipping her with Ted Kord or Killer Moth
Yeah those guys are actually older than Bruce

Dick has been horrible to Babs from cheating on her, to trying to sabotage her getting with anyone else, to just never committing

[Blue22]

I prefer Babs and Bruce
Its the biggest double standard ever that people act outraged and call Babs and Bruce creepy or try to play up their difference in age but at the same time don't bat an eyelash at her wanting to hook up with her professor or shipping her with Ted Kord or Killer Moth
Yeah those guys are actually older than Bruce

No, no. They're creepy too. But so is the idea of her and Bruce being together. It'd be less weird if Bruce's relationship with both Jim Gordon and Dick weren't a factor in this, but still....ew.

Age aside, that's his son's (or brother, depending on how you view their relationship) ex and the daughter of one of his closest friends. Those are just two lines you don't cross XD

[Tzigone]

Its the biggest double standard ever that people act outraged and call Babs and Bruce creepy or try to play up their difference in age but at the same time don't bat an eyelash at her wanting to hook up with her professor or shipping her with Ted Kord or Killer Moth

Those may be different people. I know nothing of the professor. My issue with creepiness with Bruce has nothing to do with age as it's roughly the same age gap as Barbara and Dick (maybe one year extra), and I like the age gap existing between Dick and Barbara because I like Barbara debuting as a fully-fledged adult in the same time frame as she did originally, with their 7 year age gap. I am also okay with Vic Stone dating a woman 8 years older or Donna a guy 10 years older. They're adults. As long the characters are depicted as adult-like instead kid-like and are treated as equal partners by their partners, they can date adults that are bit older. And the 18 years olds were very depicted as "grown" in the 1970s and 1980s. Later versions of the characters (and younger characters) were much less mature at 18 than they were back then. There is a point where the age difference gets to be too much, but that hasn't been crossed here to me (and age matters less the older the younger party gets). I was very unhappy at the post-COIE setup on Dinah and Ollie's ages, but then I'm one of those that doesn't like Dinah-is-Dinah's-daughter.

It's the prior relationship with Dick (really, even in reboots, that they've ever been an item taints the ship). I'm also very against Selina/Dick playing with that's happened and against Jason/Barbara and Jason/Steph for the same reasons. Though I think Jason/Barbara (or Jason/Kory) is worse for Jason than Jason/Steph since I think Jason really feels like he was Dick-replacement so dating Dick's ex wold mess with his head.

Character's ages have bounced around a lot (different ages given at different times), but I perceive Ted as younger than Bruce. This comes from me thinking of him as 28-30 in the early post-COIE era (during his solo comic), when I think of Dick as 20-22 (ages given early on), Barbara as 27 (she used to be 7 years older than Dick, but per early post-COIE, was 3-6 years older depending which issue you read, but I still think of 7), and Bruce as a hard minimum of 32 (Dick cannot start later than 13 for me, and which time Bruce is an absolute minimum of 26 when Dick becomes his partner). I read that Ted had his 15 year high school reunion right before Superman died. It's not the era of Ted I prefer at all, but Tim was 14 then, I think, so Dick was a minimum of 21 so Bruce a minimum of 34 when that happened. But, as I said, consistency in ages is sadly not a thing. And I don't ship Barbara/Ted at all.

The later post-COIE retcon (which I despise), made Barbara a "protege" of Bruce's, which she never was originally. That's an unequal relationship that I can never ever support. I do not like mentor/student or even former mentor/student romantic relationships. Especially anything that made Barbara crush on Bruce/Batman in anyway in her youth is just an absolute no-no.

I would also never support Killer Moth.

Dick has been horrible to Babs from cheating on her, to trying to sabotage her getting with anyone else, to just never committing

Which is why I deeply dislike modern Dick Grayson, after Devin Grayson and others absolutely ruined him. He used to be big on fidelity and sex only within committed relationships. In the '90s, he was the one pursuing a committed relationship with her, while she was skittish (for personal reasons). I miss that Dick Grayson (hardly the only change for the negative, but certainly one of them). I also miss faithful, good!guy Ollie and think a lot of the post-COIE one was terrible, and don't like modern Bruce, preferring older versions.

[SiegePerilous02]

When did Dick cheat on Babs? I know he cheated on on Kory with her in that infamous annual. And speaking of cheating, wasn't Ollie cheating on Dinah originally written as him getting raped and it was retconned, which is really skeevy?

Anyway, Babs has the misfortune of being the only constant major female character on the heroes side, especially across all media, who is sexually interested in men. So obviously Kate is out lol. And that means she's the default potential love interest for whatever male member of the Bat-clan they feel like pairing her with that week. We've had her paired with Dick and Bruce, briefly flirted with the idea of pairing her with Jason in the New 52, and she married Tim in the Arkham games. If Damian ages up I expect she'll be given to him as well, however briefly.

Thanks to BTAS, Dick and Babs has been hardwired into me as the OTP (ditto Selina with Bruce). Aside from her unrequited crush on Bruce in the early BTAS, she and Dick still seemed a bit hung up on each other in TNBA and its tie in comics. So much so that the revelation she had an affair with Bruce in Beyond got a "what the ****?" reaction from me even when I was a kid. I think that was mostly Timm, I'm not sure how Dini and the other DCAU creators felt about the pairing. And I view them as each others' endgames in the comics as well. I wouldn't like her with any other Bat-Family member or really anyone else, save maybe Dinah.

[Tzigone]

And speaking of cheating, wasn't Ollie cheating on Dinah originally written as him getting raped and it was retconned, which is really skeevy?

The first time, yeah - and then later sometimes treated as rape, though. Actually, I'm not entirely sure it wasn't first depicted as possibly-fever-delirium and then revealed (retconned?) as rape. Probably just a tricky display with a reveal. Or it was straight-forward and I'm misremembering. I read the story, but didn't like it (and it was so popular, just like post-COIE Batman) because I really don't care for the "darker, grittier" flavor.

[Godlike13]

Dick has been horrible to Babs from cheating on her, to trying to sabotage her getting with anyone else, to just never committing

Not really. Dick cheated on Kory with Babs, which not his best moment, but you tell Babs no in that situation. BTW Devin Grayon had no hand in the Annual, so while she certainly did some bad **** with Dick, that one is not on her. I can't recall him sabotaging her though, but he has try to steal her (or rescue her depending on how you look at it), and he was the one who tried to commit with her and she rejected it. Dick has been horrible to Kory, but when it comes to Babs he usually bends over backwards for her. Actually check that, as Ric he was a POS to her.

[nhienphan2808]

She deserve to exist as her own Bat, have her own Super (age correct Kara) and Teams. She needs no man, tho she also deserves one that actually further her narrative, not shoot it down like Dick, as she shot his Robin history down as well. Dick and Babs is a nice couple in theory but in practice it tore down the develoment and history of both. Dickkory is also not perfect, but we dont need no more Bruce and Dick version 2.0 in a bad day.