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  1. #106
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    On a different subject, I’m glad we got confirmation that Storm isn’t allowed to be used in a significant manner in any of the X-books because of Coates’ flop title that nobody reads.
    Glad that Daniel Acuña, one of the best artists in comics, is assigned to the only book I read on Unlimited where so much nothing is happening issue to issue that I cannot remember enough to write a summary, or an analysis, or a Yelp review, etc. It's so mediocre that when I finish an issue I feel like I passed out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Franklin Richards
    Fragile creatures, we are taught to fear the Reaper!
    Ever running, we are dead before we meet Her!
    Quote Originally Posted by Valeria Richards
    Fearless creatures, we all learn to fight the Reaper!
    Can't defeat Her, so instead I'll have to be Her!

  2. #107
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Feminists are trying to change the society for the benefit of all women.
    I haven't read all Emma's stuff but I don't think she ever was concerned by the situation of all women…
    When she criticized the other women's attitude, she blamed her for not being like her, she didn't say the women had the right to be the way they wanted.
    There are different types of feminists. Albright and Hillary are called feminists but have no problem with brown women getting bombed. You're also trying to elicit an ethos from 3 pages in a comic written in the 80s.

  3. #108
    Mighty Member CGAR's Avatar
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    Feminism is the movement, feminist is the person who identifies with that movement's ideology, supports in and participates in it.

    Feminism refers to the belief that women should be allowed the same rights, power, and opportunities as men and be treated in the same way, or the set of activities intended to achieve this state.

    whereas a feminist is a person who believes in feminism and tries to achieve change that helps women to get equal opportunities and treatment.

    At its core, feminism is about equal opportunity for the sexes, championing a pushback against the systematic oppression of patriarchy.
    You may dislike the character and disagree all you want but Emma does fall under this umbrella.

  4. #109
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGAR View Post
    You may dislike the character and disagree all you want but Emma does fall under this umbrella.
    It can be argued.

  5. #110
    Mighty Member CGAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    It can be argued.
    Well you know. Everyone knows you hate the character. So there's that.

  6. #111
    BANNED PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    It can be argued.
    There really isn't any argument. Even when she was a cardboard cutout for the X-Men to punch, she still mostly falls under that definition. Her actions have only grown that definition.

  7. #112
    homo superior gifted's Avatar
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    Being a feminist means supporting equal rights, particularly those between men, women, and everything that falls in between. Emma Frost is a feminist. You don't have to like her character to admit that.

    Emma Frost has flaws. Those flaws and traits may include that she's independent, cunning, vicious, selfish, etc. Having flaws doesn't disqualify her as a feminist. Disliking other female characters doesn't disqualify her as a feminist.

    Feminism doesn't mean you have to play nice.
    Last edited by gifted; 12-09-2019 at 08:12 PM.
    I like boys, comics, Disney, and traveling. // follow me @ itsnickmen
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  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by gifted View Post
    Being a feminist means supporting equal rights, particularly those between men, women, and everything that falls in between. Emma Frost is a feminist. You don't have to like her character to admit that.

    Emma Frost has flaws. Those flaws and traits may include that she's independent, cunning, vicious, selfish, etc. Having flaws doesn't disqualify her as a feminist. Disliking other female characters doesn't disqualify her as a feminist.

    Feminism doesn't mean you have to play nice.
    You also don't have to dislike her to not think she is a feminist. Just because you support feminism doesn't automatically make you a feminist but i'm old school. I don't think someone who tweets saying something should be better is an activist.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  9. #114
    homo superior gifted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    You also don't have to dislike her to not think she is a feminist. Just because you support feminism doesn't automatically make you a feminist but i'm old school. I don't think someone who tweets saying something should be better is an activist.
    I understand what you're saying, but feminist =/= activist. Now, you can be a feminism activist, but the two alone don't equate. With that said, I do believe a lot more people, including myself, should be activists to make a change to see a difference in the world.

    I will agree with most that the idea of feminism can mean different things to people; however, I also believe that one of the first steps of being an activist is combatting any negative stigmas or negative definitions that people have of feminism.

    Now to bring that back to Emma Frost (since I don't like derailing threads): Emma could be using her power and the Hellfire Club to become a feminism activist, but she does not. And just because she does not doesn't make her not a feminist. And the fact that she does not actually makes her a flawed character.

    And that's why the X-Men is such a great property because it's full of flawed characters that makes fans and readers have such rich discussions in which we apply our observations to the real world and ourselves.
    I like boys, comics, Disney, and traveling. // follow me @ itsnickmen
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  10. #115
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gifted View Post
    I understand what you're saying, but feminist =/= activist. Now, you can be a feminism activist, but the two alone don't equate. With that said, I do believe a lot more people, including myself, should be activists to make a change to see a difference in the world.

    I will agree with most that the idea of feminism can mean different things to people; however, I also believe that one of the first steps of being an activist is combatting any negative stigmas or negative definitions that people have of feminism.

    Now to bring that back to Emma Frost (since I don't like derailing threads): Emma could be using her power and the Hellfire Club to become a feminism activist, but she does not. And just because she does not doesn't make her not a feminist. And the fact that she does not actually makes her a flawed character.
    Dang what a nice comment
    Quote Originally Posted by gifted View Post
    IAnd that's why the X-Men is such a great property because it's full of flawed characters that makes fans and readers have such rich discussions in which we apply our observations to the real world and ourselves.
    This is exactly how I take any sort of entertainment, whether it's music, movies, comic books....X-Men comics aren't some meta commentary on social issues. Nor are thru merely Mutant Powers, and Hero Battles. they can be used as a tool for self reflection/evaluation + as a catalyst for personal growth, and an overall understanding of the issues in our society
    GrindrStone(D)

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by gifted View Post
    I understand what you're saying, but feminist =/= activist. Now, you can be a feminism activist, but the two alone don't equate. With that said, I do believe a lot more people, including myself, should be activists to make a change to see a difference in the world.

    I will agree with most that the idea of feminism can mean different things to people; however, I also believe that one of the first steps of being an activist is combatting any negative stigmas or negative definitions that people have of feminism.

    Now to bring that back to Emma Frost (since I don't like derailing threads): Emma could be using her power and the Hellfire Club to become a feminism activist, but she does not. And just because she does not doesn't make her not a feminist. And the fact that she does not actually makes her a flawed character.


    And that's why the X-Men is such a great property because it's full of flawed characters that makes fans and readers have such rich discussions in which we apply our observations to the real world and ourselves.
    Oh, she's a closeted feminist, then, hidden behind underwear. Because it matters to have opinions if you don't voice them?

    The idea of feminism can mean different things to people, yes, it doesn't mean it is right. You have to agree on definitions to be able to discuss. Incidentally, it is one of the reasons why "soft sciences" are discredited compared to "hard sciences".

    X-men characters had some many authors, they are rather inconsistent, you can make them say almost what you want, depending on the issues that matter to you.
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  12. #117
    Mighty Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Quiet Councilor View Post
    It IS a dismissal. Read it again.
    I always read it as an acknowledgement of the existence of sexism and the fact that in her mind she could exploit it to control men, rather than refuse to dress like that. Right or wrong, I think it's open to interpretation.

    I see her as a Selina Meyer type of feminist in that panel. It sounds an awful lot like ""When I was coming up as a lawyer, I didn't have to remind everyone I was a woman every 10 seconds because they never let me forget it. I smiled all through the casual grabbing of my behind and all the secret meetings on the golf course that I wasn't invited to. So how about giving a little thanks to the women like me who built the ladder that you use to get up onto your soapbox? How about for once in your life you stop whining, you stop complaining and you just man up!".
    Which is not really a compliment and it's a bit problematic, but she maybe had good intentions. I mean she was trying to fight against the patriarchal methods of the Hellfire Club exploiting those same methods to gain power which sounds cold but it definitely opened up some spots for female power in the Club (which she kept mostly for herself but that's a character flaw that we know she has and especially had at the time, some high level of greediness and power hunger). What I think she - and Selina - meant is that gaining power positions during that time definitely required some compromising, but it worked in giving some power to females in those male dominated places. It's not like she could have gone to Shaw and said "listen I think this is sexist and you should respect women more", she was still working with mustache-twirling supervillains with a thing for bondage. It was definitely a complicated matter. Plus she's changed a lot and her recent appearances in X-Men Black and Marauders confirm that she cares for other women and their empowerment.

    Sorry if I explained myself badly in this hahaha but language barriers get thicker when it comes to more complex matters.
    Last edited by Veitha; 12-10-2019 at 05:04 AM.

  13. #118
    Mighty Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Glad that Daniel Acuña, one of the best artists in comics, is assigned to the only book I read on Unlimited where so much nothing is happening issue to issue that I cannot remember enough to write a summary, or an analysis, or a Yelp review, etc. It's so mediocre that when I finish an issue I feel like I passed out.
    The only thing I remember from the last 5 issues of Black Panther is that people were talking and there were symbiotes. It leaves me nothing really, I only keep reading it for Ororo at this point.

  14. #119
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    Glad this thread turned into another Emma debate.

    "Feminist" in the sense of "Strong woman defying patriarchal norms and embracing her own goals" definitely suits her. "Working for total gender equality" not so much TBH. "Lifting up all women" definitely not.

    Well I'm talking about the holistic totality of Emma Frost across time. More recently yeah they're turning her closer into the 2nd and 3rd versions there.

    It's kind of the whole debate of "Is Mystique a feminist icon" etc etc. Or Villanelle from the TV series Killing Eve. Like you can be a female "villain" and still be an example of feminism probably, depends how you think of it.
    Last edited by AbnormallyNormal; 12-10-2019 at 05:04 AM.
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  15. #120
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    For fuk's sake. There's an Emma Frost discussion thread.
    "Cable was right!"

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