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  1. #76
    Astonishing Member Vegan Daddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Thank you for posting this. Emma story has too many lows to beconsidered a feminist.
    This is really bad stuff. Sure the writers that are her fans try a lot to turn the story, but they can't erase this
    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Except that she's a completely different person that the cardboard cutout in shown in that panel. It's like posting a panel of early Jean Grey being in danger to claim 2019 Jean Grey is super weak.
    Uhh...this was written by Ann Nocenti and it’s one of my favorite Emma Frost moments. I always thought it was badass and empowering but maybe it reads different for women.

  2. #77
    Chris-chan of X-fans Maestroneto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    Uhh...this issue was written by Ann Nocenti and itís one of my favorite Emma Frost moments. I always thought it was badass and empowering but maybe it reads different for women.
    The ending of that backup suggests it's not as empowering as Emma believes she is there. There's a lot of layers going on in that story that sometimes get left out by both fans and haters of Emma's speech.

  3. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    Uhh...this issue was written by Ann Nocenti and it’s one of my favorite Emma Frost moments. I always thought it was badass and empowering but maybe it reads different for women.
    It can do; it depends on if we have faith that this was done for the benefit of women and the idea of liberation in general, or if it's just as an excuse to keep drawing cheesecake/fan service. I tend to fall into the latter, to be honest, but I don't really trust easy anyway, so. *Shrug.* Still, there's solid reasoning there, it just needs to be used in better faith overall.

  4. #79
    Ultimate Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    Uhh...this was written by Ann Nocenti and it’s one of my favorite Emma Frost moments. I always thought it was badass and empowering but maybe it reads different for women.
    "there isn't sexism" that isn't empowering at all and a flat out lie. And the lack of empathy of emma to the woman is very glaring

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    Uhh...this was written by Ann Nocenti and itís one of my favorite Emma Frost moments. I always thought it was badass and empowering but maybe it reads different for women.
    I don't think it was very empowering. The way i read it is "men don't think about be as a sex object because i command the room." But we have seen many of those same men who in this conversation she was asserting herself as more powerful (to a weaker female at that) than other women to did not in fact see her that way. We know how Shaw and other men saw her and it wasn't as some powerful force despite the fact that she is one. So it came off to me like thats what she convinced herself of so she can hold her head up. Like a stripper who hates stripping but to convince themselves tell themselves and everyone else stripping is great and she has the power vs a stripper who really does enjoy stripping and it makes her feel truly empowered.

    Though i guess since Emma is a telepath one could assume that maybe the men really thought she was boss despite some of their later dialogue.

    To summarize it sounded like a madam telling a woman to use what god gave her and take control of it to get what she wants from horny dumb men.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    Uhh...this was written by Ann Nocenti and it’s one of my favorite Emma Frost moments. I always thought it was badass and empowering but maybe it reads different for women.
    Nocenti is a goddess and I don't think her full DD run has ever been properly collected beginning to end.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    On a different subject, I’m glad we got confirmation that Storm isn’t allowed to be used in a significant manner in any of the X-books because of Coates’ flop title that nobody reads.



    lol how many times has Emma been bodyshamed or sluthshamed by any of those women over the years?
    I don't think it was confirmation. He said they were planning their storiess 18 months ago but he didn't know where she would be but at a certain point he decided forget it and went full steam ahead. But he did reach out to those offices. If she couldn't be used she wouldn't have been in Extraodrdinary X-men or in the Age of X-men stuff which she was at the same time she was appearing in BP. Which is why it makes even less sense to me why marvel seems to make using Storm so hard or perhaps it's just what he was thinking because he didn't want to step on toes.

    Ahh you said significant i missed that. Your basically right. lol
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    It can do; it depends on if we have faith that this was done for the benefit of women and the idea of liberation in general, or if it's just as an excuse to keep drawing cheesecake/fan service. I tend to fall into the latter, to be honest, but I don't really trust easy anyway, so. *Shrug.*
    Nope, I think your read is on point. Even the suggestion that sexism doesn’t exist is just asinine and not even really aligned with Emma’s character. She’s spent her adult life penetrating sexist circles and institutions in her pursuit of power. The Hellfire Club looks an awful lot like Epstein and his circle if you want a real world parallel. Emma justifying the exploitation here isn’t meta-commentary on female empowerment. It’s about justifying cheesecake.

  9. #84
    Astonishing Member Vegan Daddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    "there isn't sexism" that isn't empowering at all and a flat out lie. And the lack of empathy of emma to the woman is very glaring
    “There’s no such thing as sexism, unless you give them(men) that power

    Obviously that’s lacking empathy and perspective — it is Emma Frost — because most women aren’t white, rich, and telepathic. Still, I think it paints her as a fierce, resourceful woman who does what she has to.

  10. #85
    Chris-chan of X-fans Maestroneto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    I don't think it was confirmation. He said they were planning their storiess 18 months ago but he didn't know where she would be but at a certain point he decided forget it and went full steam ahead. But he did reach out to those offices. If she couldn't be used she wouldn't have been in Extraodrdinary X-men or in the Age of X-men stuff which she was at the same time she was appearing in BP. Which is why it makes even less sense to me why marvel seems to make using Storm so hard or perhaps it's just what he was thinking because he didn't want to step on toes.
    The Black Panther title launched after Extraordinary and didn't have much Storm in its first year. Storm becoming prominent in BP coincided with her reduced status in ResurXion.

    The fact that they didn't know what Storm would be up to in 18 months because of BP means... the BP creatives get to be in charge of whatever's going on with her. And that in the 18 months before Duggan decided to do his own thing, every other X-writer also couldn't do anything with her.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    The Black Panther title launched after Extraordinary and didn't have much Storm in its first year. Storm becoming prominent in BP coincided with her reduced status in ResurXion.

    The fact that they didn't know what Storm would be up to in 18 months because of BP means... the BP creatives get to be in charge of whatever's going on with her. And that in the 18 months before Duggan decided to do his own thing, every other X-writer also couldn't do anything with her.
    Yeah i edited. When your right your right. Kind of explains lightning lass in the x-books.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    The Black Panther title launched after Extraordinary and didn't have much Storm in its first year. Storm becoming prominent in BP coincided with her reduced status in ResurXion.

    The fact that they didn't know what Storm would be up to in 18 months because of BP means... the BP creatives get to be in charge of whatever's going on with her. And that in the 18 months before Duggan decided to do his own thing, every other X-writer also couldn't do anything with her.
    I think it’s less general than that. It’s not the BP team they’re taking cues from; its Coates, specifically. We already know he has plans to write her solo, and he’s the only to say anything really new with her in about three decades.

  13. #88
    Ultimate Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    “There’s no such thing as sexism, unless you give them(men) that power

    Obviously that’s lacking empathy and perspective — it is Emma Frost — because most women aren’t white, rich, and telepathic. Still, I think it paints her as a fierce, resourceful woman who does what she has to.
    Doesn't matter what a woman does, sexism exists. Like there was a woman that was against feminism and when she tried to enter alt right groups she felt the sexism, even when she ignoerd that it existed.

    Yeah she is that, but it isn't equivalent of being feminist.

  14. #89
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Quiet Councilor View Post
    Nope, I think your read is on point. Even the suggestion that sexism doesn’t exist is just asinine and not even really aligned with Emma’s character. She’s spent her adult life penetrating sexist circles and institutions in her pursuit of power. The Hellfire Club looks an awful lot like Epstein and his circle if you want a real world parallel. Emma justifying the exploitation here isn’t meta-commentary on female empowerment. It’s about justifying cheesecake.
    I don't believe Emma is denying sexism exists. I believe it's Emma's way of saying she isn't the victim in this case Wyngarde and Shaw are because she turns the table on them.

    The ending alludes that they're victims of being stuck playing perpetual wicked games.

    As for this conversation on feminism it's asinine. You get every type of group there are literal lbgtq neo nazis who call themselves feminists.
    Last edited by ExodusCloak; 12-09-2019 at 04:27 PM.

  15. #90
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    Yeah, Nocenti's classic work is rarely subtle in its politics, but it's also got lots of layers.

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