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  1. #1
    Safari Grandma Sophicles's Avatar
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    Default David Haller vs Doctor Manhattan

    Live-action versions - David from Legion takes on Cal/Jon from Watchmen (movie feats also apply).

    No BFR.

    Can either one prevail over the other?
    Last edited by Sophicles; 12-09-2019 at 10:23 PM.

  2. #2
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophicles View Post
    Live-action versions - David from Legion takes on Cal/Jon from Watchmen (movie feats also apply).

    No BFR.

    Can either one prevail over the other?
    This is tough: Jon shows absolutely no TP resistance and David is ridiculously strong there. That should probably equal 10 count at worst.
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  3. #3
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Yeah, assuming David's reality warping powers can block Manhattan for even an instant, he can just pull him into the astral plane and the Jon has a really unpleasant time.
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  4. #4
    The Revan.....lives! Oswin's Avatar
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    heh, it's odd how a near omniscient being can get attacked by telepathy, but no feats is no feats i guess.

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member The Dork Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswin View Post
    heh, it's odd how a near omniscient being can get attacked by telepathy, but no feats is no feats i guess.
    Old trope. Think War of the Worlds

  6. #6
    The Undead One The Chou Lives's Avatar
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    Given Manhattan lacks will power to even attempt to change patterns of fate and let it play out.

    Yeah a mind set that way is easy to break to wise.

  7. #7
    The Revan.....lives! Oswin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Chou Lives View Post
    Given Manhattan lacks will power to even attempt to change patterns of fate and let it play out.

    Yeah a mind set that way is easy to break to wise.
    i'm not sure it's a matter of willpower, or fate. Dr. Manhatten just perceives all time at once (or at least from when he was born) it would be like you trying to change what happened yesterday.

    in a arena fight this would not factor in.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Doomsday Clock count for this? It is ostensibly the same Doc from the original comics, and the OP implies we are counting comics but with movie feats too.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    Doomsday Clock count for this? It is ostensibly the same Doc from the original comics, and the OP implies we are counting comics but with movie feats too.
    It says live versions so I assume it means Manhattan from both the movie and the HBO series.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildling View Post
    It says live versions so I assume it means Manhattan from both the movie and the HBO series.
    Oh misread that my bad.

  11. #11
    Fantastic Member Tomzilla's Avatar
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    Given how Jon perceives his life happening all at once, I'm not exactly sure how practical David's telepathy would be. Stepping into Doctor Manhattan's mind could be like getting lost in a temporal maze. But since this is David Haller we're talking about, he wouldn't be entering Jon's mind alone -- his other personalities would be joining him, which could make things even worse for Doctor Manhattan. I'd pay to see this happen.

    On the physical plane, it's a quickdraw. Both have the power to zap apart molecules. David can't come back from being blown into crimson chunks (bullets killed him after all); however, he's demonstrated so many different powers and abilities that he might be able to cancel out Doctor Manhattan's initial strike. This matchup is a doozy. I'm currently leaning towards Doctor Manhattan.

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  12. #12
    Safari Grandma Sophicles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomzilla View Post
    Given how Jon perceives his life happening all at once, I'm not exactly sure how practical David's telepathy would be. Stepping into Doctor Manhattan's mind could be like getting lost in a temporal maze. But since this is David Haller we're talking about, he wouldn't be entering Jon's mind alone -- his other personalities would be joining him, which could make things even worse for Doctor Manhattan. I'd pay to see this happen.

    On the physical plane, it's a quickdraw. Both have the power to zap apart molecules. David can't come back from being blown into crimson chunks (bullets killed him after all); however, he's demonstrated so many different powers and abilities that he might be able to cancel out Doctor Manhattan's initial strike. This matchup is a doozy. I'm currently leaning towards Doctor Manhattan.

    I haven't watched HBO's Watchmen series yet. But FX's Legion is one of my all-time favorite shows. It's absolutely mind-blowing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomzilla View Post
    Given how Jon perceives his life happening all at once, I'm not exactly sure how practical David's telepathy would be. Stepping into Doctor Manhattan's mind could be like getting lost in a temporal maze. But since this is David Haller we're talking about, he wouldn't be entering Jon's mind alone -- his other personalities would be joining him, which could make things even worse for Doctor Manhattan. I'd pay to see this happen.

    On the physical plane, it's a quickdraw. Both have the power to zap apart molecules. David can't come back from being blown into crimson chunks (bullets killed him after all); however, he's demonstrated so many different powers and abilities that he might be able to cancel out Doctor Manhattan's initial strike. This matchup is a doozy. I'm currently leaning towards Doctor Manhattan.

    I haven't watched HBO's Watchmen series yet. But FX's Legion is one of my all-time favorite shows. It's absolutely mind-blowing.
    Having seen both, I definitely feel Watchmen is better than Legion (and I thoroughly enjoyed Legion); there's a finale episode remaining, and if it sticks the landing, it'll become one of my fave shows ever.

    HEAVY SPOILER:
    spoilers:
    HBO's Manhattan is capable of terraforming a moon of Jupiter with simply a wave of his hand; he created his own Garden of Eden and all life on the moon - I believe he says it took him 90 seconds.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmP0JxW8Qcs

    He's capable of stopping bullets fired at him, and he also experiences multiple timelines at once - he's talking to people in the past whilst talking to someone in the present, and also relaying information from the present to the past. He sees the threads of causality, though he's pretty passive and doesn't try to change them.

    Not sure what David would experience if he ever entered the mind of someone experiencing all these timelines simultaneously.

    One thing that Legion did a good job of portraying though, was how space and time was really meaningless to high-enough level psychics like Shadow King and David.

    David was frozen in time, and manipulated temporally by a bunch of Time Demons, but through his sheer psionic strength, powered through the time manipulation and immolated one of the Time Demons, I believe.
    Feats like that may play in David's favor against someone like Manhattan, for whom experiences in different times are also just relative.

    I wonder if David learns about Manhattan's limitation in his omniscience due to tachyon particles if he reads his mind, could he use this info to his advantage?
    end of spoilers
    Last edited by Sophicles; 12-12-2019 at 12:42 PM.

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