X-Force #3 review feat 50% Domino *spoilers*

[GodfatherIV]

I like the data pages. As a person who reads novels it gives the books a richer feel

[Killerbee911]

It is impossible for every story beat to be put in comic, The size and format prevents that from happening. Data page used how they are being are used as supplements. Saying you rather them just take information and putting panel is wrong thinking imo. The data page info would be cut and you would get in because sacrifices has to be made for the format . Sentences/Paragraphs are smaller than pages and give more information than panels, Two sentences can be two pages in a script. The Cerebro panel and 5th assassin panels they are 3 or 6 pages content(or more) if they are full fleshed out instead of just two pages.

The only issue with the Data pages is that every comic in DoX are using them as requirement, Something like Fallen Angels doesn't need its Data pages. The data pages in something like X-force gives story we weren't going to get. And words give a clarity something that hard to explain on page in visual. The ability to put detail misc information on data pages allows a writer to just focus on the story. The explanation of the disease in new mutants was example of that. Instead of wasting pages setting up that,They just threw on a data page and kept the story moving on more interesting things. The Data page full integrated in stories is better than data panels that follow books or large data books put out by Marvel and DC which are wide ignored even though they are canon.

[pkingdom]

A good comic book writer and editor knows how to work with the number of pages they're given. If you have too much story to fit into the pages you're given, you edit your story to fit. The best writers and artists know how to convey clarity with what they have. If you need paragraphs of info in order for your comic panels to make sense, either the writer or the artist is failing at storytelling in the medium of comic books.

When the data pages are just interesting tidbit and trivia, that's fine. But when important information, plot points and foreshadowing is buried in that text, then they're doing something wrong. Now, what information we each consider vitally important is up for debate.

this conversation getting repetitive. If you like them, fine. I don't. I think they're becoming a crutch.

[GodfatherIV]

And i would say if someone doesn't like them then dont read them just skip it. I did that with Fallen Angels. Its not making or breaking the book. If Im going to pay the money for a comic then dont give me Bendis pages with tye same expressions and one or two words for 18 pages and then the rest are ads and previews for yet another event. Give me more info and story. After all I read novels too.

[Wolverine12]

Another home run for this book. I didn't see many people talking about the art in this issue but holy cow is Cassara doing amazing stuff. Even if a lot of the stuff was gory, I could really feel this issue if that makes any sense. I laughed at the name of the secret group, I thought Xeno was a little too on the nose (xenophobics), but hey at least they are embracing their hate fully. This book just keeps pulling farther ahead of the rest of the titles and for the most part I like every title so far.

[Anchorsify]

Criticize away. Just expect to be called out when you act like you know what’s more pertinent to the story than the writer.

The writer can be wrong and I fully agree with Maestro on this. The first data page point (of reaver bodies exploding) comes right after two pages showing someone leaving and a third person showing up to smother the only living reaver, then the data page says that the person we saw already clear the scene 2 pages ago is now dead from an explosion.. but not the other person with him last seen (sage) or the person who was with the reaver last who killed them (Colossus?). That isn’t “more story yay”, that is objectively narrative inconsistency that is hurt by the transition of one medium of storytelling to another that hurts the book’s storytelling because it is abruptly scene shifting without taking into account its own given context. And it would be easiest to solve by not making that switch, because they are both important story beats that absolutely deserve to be visualized, not just explained via text (in a page meant to be about data extraneuous to the story, not vital to it).

Your attempt to patronize maestro doesn’t really hold up with “but the successful writer thinks orherwise.”


Edit: I should say, also, that data pages have a place in the books still (imo) and they already showed how to do them right (or perhaps Hickman did, but Percy might not view them the same way or something)—the maps of Krakoa, the explanations of omega level mutants and sinister secrets and of the concepts of machine intelligence levels—all that works as proper, extra information about the lore of what Hickman is doing and setting up that not only is fine to be relegated to data pages of full text and no art, but is sometimes better than trying to make a character pull a map to show that a map of Krakoa exists. They are basically side panels and glossary pages that add depth without taking away from the story being told (or putting the story in them over the artwork meant to do that).

Percy did not do that here and I hope he fixes it, because I don’t want to continually see potentially great comic moments like forge kissing Charles from excitement to be limited to a data page when it is not extraneous data for lore at all, but a moment meant to show off the relationship and personality of two characters.

That is why those data pages are not great, and I would rather them make room for the story to be shown and told properly. Is it better than the moment never existing at all? Sure. Does that mean it’s okay it’s only text? No. Not at all.

[Killerbee911]

That is why those data pages are not great, and I would rather them make room for the story to be shown and told properly. Is it better than the moment never existing at all? Sure. Does that mean it’s okay it’s only text? No. Not at all.

They can't because of the format, Space is limited in monthly comics books.You have about 20 pages and You can't tell everything. A lot of important things get drop on the cutting room floor. The forge scene means that something else is cut from the book and the forge scene doesn't add anything to main storyline he is trying to tell. Comics is visual AND written some people are forgetting the BOOK part of comics. Words complement the pictures, Pictures complent the words, Sometimes the pictures is enough alone and sometimes the written is enough alone.

It is nice that data pages is being used in direct way,It actually relieves the story when used that way instead of wall of texts on couples and loosely related picture or long unnecessary pages of set up with exposition(comics do that stuff at times).Data pages can be better than clunky exposition pages with art. Percy was allowed to be more concise with the story he was trying to tell which imo made for a better book. The ugly truth is writers in comic have to cut important stuff all the time that should be put in book.

Knowing that these things(even seemingly important story beats) happen in data page is good thing for the fans it is clearly canon for one and it can be touch on in the future .Writing is clearly more compact than art, It takes up less space allowing everything that need to be told about the stories to happen in this one book. The data page only proved the power of written word because so many people have a good moment in their head about the forge scene because they imagined it. There is no guarantee that scene is good or gets the same meaning when drawn. There is a good chance we would probably gotten is Professor X and Forge gay because of the art(and nothing is wrong with that) than more scene of pure happiness to see one with no sexual implications. The big point being if the scene seems good that is because writing is one of the component of comics books. Parts of stories(in comics) are told with visuals that don't really matter in conjunction to text all the time and they aren't bad stories either. There is no set way that makes things right the way. I have read good text heavy comic books and I have read good art focus comics books. I have read comic stories that needed lots of text and exposition to set up stuff and quite frankly they wasted a lot time and pages when they could have just used a one single cleanly put together data page.

[Anchorsify]

I am aware of all of those points you made. But there’s no present conversation to be had to justify why the smothering of the assassin could not have been delayed to include the imagery of forge and Charles interaction, because there is no follow up or falllout from the smothering, with a person that isn’t clearly identified or given context, which is made more confusing with the narrative when it’s stated the bodies blow up but the closest person to that body is unharmed while another not last seen closest to them is labeled dead and fast tracked for revival.

Meanwhile, a decades long friendship between two characters is relegated to a text only extraneous page that devalues the piognancy of the moment of seeing someone alive who was just killed in a public display of human animosity toward mutant kind by showing their ability to reach the very heart of their leadership. That is not something you put to text only in favor of a poorly shown killing that has no little importance beyond the text explaining how they would have no answers if he died.

The choice is obvious to me that the ambiguity of the assassin’s death and the crucial part of that page being the text means that it would be better served as a data page over Charles’ ressurection as it is presented to Krakoans (because we only see his emergence through the portal to show him being alive to humans).

YMMV, but it’s clearly a mistake in my eyes and could and should have been done better. On top of the obvious slippery slope of seeing this done with even more important moments down the road it shouldn’t be “and then NIMROD returned from the future to kill Moira”. They have with this issue already established that character deaths can happen in data pages, which is.. awful, really.

One of the points behind Hickman and the ressurection abilities was for character deaths to serve a greater purpose to the narrative and not be used frivolously for shock value or a wow factor or low effort drama but so far it shows little plot importance and a lot of bad precedent.

[Killerbee911]

I am aware of all of those points you made. But there’s no present conversation to be had to justify why the smothering of the assassin could not have been delayed to include the imagery of forge and Charles interaction, because there is no follow up or falllout from the smothering, with a person that isn’t clearly identified or given context, which is made more confusing with the narrative when it’s stated the bodies blow up but the closest person to that body is unharmed while another not last seen closest to them is labeled dead and fast tracked for revival.
.

The smothering of the assassin is a story piece that is setting up a future story with probably Colossus, Forge and Chuck interaction was nice story beat to show the contrast of reactions to Xavier being alive, You remove it from the story and you don't lose anything but its existence sets up of relationship with Xavier that we really didn't realize existed. It is fine as text page for me. It is small piece story that didn't need to be there but we are glad that is was there and it set up things in the future. The point of the comic in this issue was to set up X-force every page in the book was in service of setting up that or future plot line. And the data page let the story do that while fleshing out some small details.

Anyways the book was good it feels a little weird for us to nitpick at it with little criticisms I get where you are coming from even though I might not completely agree with your point. But while here doing that lets take time out note that Jean Grey parents stop and lay down and eat on tombstones in cemeteries and played with children inside of cemeteries that fact as well that Jean and Beast talk about death was kinda weird.

Oh yeah once again Xavier isn't Maker, Librarian or Mr Sinister clone we see a clean view of face in this book.Just to remind people again that not every story beat Hickman set up is meant to be evil or even meaningful.

[pkingdom]

Another home run for this book. I didn't see many people talking about the art in this issue but holy cow is Cassara doing amazing stuff. Even if a lot of the stuff was gory, I could really feel this issue if that makes any sense. I laughed at the name of the secret group, I thought Xeno was a little too on the nose (xenophobics), but hey at least they are embracing their hate fully. This book just keeps pulling farther ahead of the rest of the titles and for the most part I like every title so far.

Plot twist: they're called Xeno because they are actually aliens and are actually xenomorphs from Alien. Not like, references or shout outs, but straight up the Alien monsters.

[Wolverine12]

Plot twist: they're called Xeno because they are actually aliens and are actually xenomorphs from Alien. Not like, references or shout outs, but straight up the Alien monsters.

Love it!!!

[Wolverine12]

Let’s move on from the like/dislike opinions of the data pages. It’s starting to derail the thread and getting OT. Sounds like a great thread of its own.

[Frobisher]

Plot twist: they're called Xeno because they are actually aliens and are actually xenomorphs from Alien. Not like, references or shout outs, but straight up the Alien monsters.

Ha! The one term that word is used in the Alien films, it was a catch-all term for extraterrestrial creatures. The marines thought they were there to shoot three legged chickens or something.

[Hulkout42]

So I have to ask, is Logan going to be the voice of reason on this team? I mean throughout his and Kid Omega's romp he is the one constantly telling him every time he goes on his superiority rant, listen it is isn't all black and white or us versus them, there are evil mutants just like there are evil humans and all that. Is that the direction they will take him to this book?

For that matter who is going to lead this team? Has that been hinted at? I mean I mean I would think given how they have written her it could be Jean out of the left field or give it to Logan who as i said seemed to be the logical one here in this issue.

[tuck frump]

Jean bringing back Xavier felt extremely anticlimatic. She made a big deal out of it and she had a cover devoted to herself. I was hoping for a psychedelic journey through the astral plane, sifting through Xavier's entire existence and some ultimate intimacy at the end. Instead it took three panels.

I want extra pages of people bowing to King Xavier and Forge making out with him for the TPB.