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Thread: Empyre (2020)

  1. #1741
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    It definitely seems like marvel is given preferential treatment to the x-corner of the MU at the expense of the other properties. Non-mutant characters are being written as bigots or getting dragged in their own books(She-Hulk). Some are being punked or threatened and not pushing back or defending themselves(Reed Richards). And still others are portrayed as incompetent or weak or wrong and marvel is effectively saying mutants can do it better(The Avengers and Abigail/Sword situation). So the question becomes how far does this go before there is some pushback? How long until non x-writers and non x-fans get sick of seeing their favorite characters disrespected and written down to push Krakoa. How long until many become tired of the blatant X-men favoritism that seems to be coming from marvel? Hickman appears to be marvel's golden boy and seemingly has free reign to do whatever he wants in his goal of pushing the x-franchise to the top. And it looks like throwing non-mutant characters under the bus and character assassinating others is going to be the norm. If one is an x-fan then life is good but if one is not then you are in for a dismal time. Marvel appears to have no qualms in downplaying and disrespecting it's non-mutant characters in favor of elevating the x-line. And it's even more distressing that some non x-writers(Ewing)are dragging their own characters in favour of the X-men. It's like they're auditioning for a writing job on an x-book(which Ewing successfully got). I suspect we will see more of this, Black Panther, Thor, Spider-man, ect; no one is safe and all are expendable on the alter of Hickman's X-men.

  2. #1742
    Mighty Member scourge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    It definitely seems like marvel is given preferential treatment to the x-corner of the MU at the expense of the other properties. Non-mutant characters are being written as bigots or getting dragged in their own books(She-Hulk). Some are being punked or threatened and not pushing back or defending themselves(Reed Richards). And still others are portrayed as incompetent or weak or wrong and marvel is effectively saying mutants can do it better(The Avengers and Abigail/Sword situation). So the question becomes how far does this go before there is some pushback? How long until non x-writers and non x-fans get sick of seeing their favorite characters disrespected and written down to push Krakoa. How long until many become tired of the blatant X-men favoritism that seems to be coming from marvel? Hickman appears to be marvel's golden boy and seemingly has free reign to do whatever he wants in his goal of pushing the x-franchise to the top. And it looks like throwing non-mutant characters under the bus and character assassinating others is going to be the norm. If one is an x-fan then life is good but if one is not then you are in for a dismal time. Marvel appears to have no qualms in downplaying and disrespecting it's non-mutant characters in favor of elevating the x-line. And it's even more distressing that some non x-writers(Ewing)are dragging their own characters in favour of the X-men. It's like they're auditioning for a writing job on an x-book(which Ewing successfully got). I suspect we will see more of this, Black Panther, Thor, Spider-man, ect; no one is safe and all are expendable on the alter of Hickman's X-men.
    Oh you're not even allowed to be an X-fan that doesn't like how Hickman's twisting and messing up the X-men and X-related lore. Its less X-favoritism and more Hickman-favoritism. Because what he's writing is not the X-men.

    It would be nice if there were less focus on Hickman's stuff.
    I was pretty disappointed...but not surprised...by the SWORD reveal. Would have MUCH rather had a space book with Teddy and Billy instead of Mutant Sex Cult Island in Space. But at least with Ewing in charge of it, the writing will be better than any of the other books.

  3. #1743
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    make other marvel properties as cohesive and focused as current x-men
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  4. #1744
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    I mean the importance is being given to the most sucessfull and profitable, it is what it is!
    Billy and teddy will probably apear in a young avengers title!
    Last edited by Ravin' Ray; 09-23-2020 at 04:14 PM. Reason: Corrected spelling of names

  5. #1745
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    make other marvel properties as cohesive and focused as current x-men
    Good point. I like how Spider-Man's going so far under Nick Spencer, but yeah, Marvel should also invest some of that same effort it's now putting (back) into X-Men with its other major hero franchises like the Fantastic Four and the Avengers. A balance, if you will.
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  6. #1746
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Well at least someone is happy for the roster, that should count as a win for Marvel.
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  7. #1747
    Fantastic Member Waking Replica's Avatar
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    I mean, its just a difference of how the franchises are handled. Besides, while I don't read the books, it seems detrimental to try and fold the likes of Thor, Cap, BP, Iron Man, etc into a single narrative when they all have the capacity to flourish in their own lanes. The hox/pox/dox stuff works because you can just sort of lump the entirety of mutants together and tell their tale as a unit.

  8. #1748
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Good point. I like how Spider-Man's going so far under Nick Spencer, but yeah, Marvel should also invest some of that same effort it's now putting (back) into X-Men with its other major hero franchises like the Fantastic Four and the Avengers. A balance, if you will.
    The big difference between the X-Books and the rest of Marvel right now is that the X-Books are creator driven. You'd need to get the editors in charge of the other offices on board with that approach.

  9. #1749
    Spectacular Member Sataniel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cc008 View Post
    I'm interested in seeing what happens with Avengers after Aaron's latest phoenix episode. I have a feeling a relaunch is closer than a year or 2 away.
    Phoenix Tournament
    VS Dracula
    VS Squadron Supreme of America
    VS Russia
    VS Hand?
    VS Mephisto with an event

    5-6 times half a year -> 2.5 - 3 years.

    EDIT: Lol @ people calling X-Men cohesive. They can't keep things straight between titles despite supposedly constantly communicating on Slack. I have zero faith in Marvel editors, but they could at least take a look at each other's scripts.
    Last edited by Sataniel; 09-23-2020 at 05:08 PM.

  10. #1750
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    make other marvel properties as cohesive and focused as current x-men
    That's all it comes down to. The Avengers got a few years with Hickman now it's the X-Men's turn, I can't complain. It's up to Marvel editorial now to bring back the cohesion of the early-mid 2010's with a new crop of creators willing to work on the Avengers titles and tell the type of layered, lore-filled stories being told at the X-office. They just misfired with Aaron and things will probably correct themselves when his run is over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waking Replica View Post
    I mean, its just a difference of how the franchises are handled. Besides, while I don't read the books, it seems detrimental to try and fold the likes of Thor, Cap, BP, Iron Man, etc into a single narrative when they all have the capacity to flourish in their own lanes. The hox/pox/dox stuff works because you can just sort of lump the entirety of mutants together and tell their tale as a unit.
    This is true too and just the set-up Avengers writers have to work with. It's harder to tell a comprehensive story with the type of radical updates that Hickman is making when over half your team has their own solo books. Meanwhile the only X-Man that can safely hold their own title is Wolverine. But the Avengers have always been more than just the Big 3 and Black Panther/Captain Marvel.

    The team that featured in the Avengers tie-ins to Empyre could get secondary title title. There's no reason Young Avengers can't get another relaunch. I would've much preferred a Secret Avengers title that leaned on the BP mythos than an Agents of Wakanda book comprised of D-listers. The cohesion is possible if editorial is willing to broaden the scope of their titles and have that collaboration.

  11. #1751
    Extraordinary Member Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    make other marvel properties as cohesive and focused as current x-men
    Exactly. The state of the Avengers line is depressing in comparison.
    Aaron's Avengers should be over already and it looks like Marvel can't help but tread old ground by launching interchangeable Avengers spin-offs (Strikeforce, Agents of Wakanda, Savage Avengers) that bring nothing new to the table.
    Say what you will about the Hixmen, but at least all team books have their own purpose and distinct feel, even if some are stinkers like Brisson's NM.

  12. #1752
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waking Replica View Post
    I mean, its just a difference of how the franchises are handled. Besides, while I don't read the books, it seems detrimental to try and fold the likes of Thor, Cap, BP, Iron Man, etc into a single narrative when they all have the capacity to flourish in their own lanes. The hox/pox/dox stuff works because you can just sort of lump the entirety of mutants together and tell their tale as a unit.
    hypothetically this is how it should work but neither the team book or the solos are exactly flourishing

    when was the last time captain america, iron man, and thor, and hulk, were all good at the same time, how are we going to do that for all four of them plus carol and t'challa, there's always a weak link, or several. hickman x-men shows you can let one person have full control of a chunk of a universe, let them build a world and plans and a sandbox, and then summon talent that can use that sandbox and they go in interesting directions with individual pieces, creating solid to great individual titles that stand on their own while also creating a strong line, it is not like marvel is incapable of doing this with the other major parts of the line, because a heavily truncated version of what i just described is done almost every year across the books for events and tie-ins, and this is also the basic strategy of the mcu

    this isnt to say that all the flagships are godawful or that dawn of x is perfect, but when you compare the two lines on an personal level and audience response, the current avengers strategy of letting teams just do their pitches and awkwardly bumblefuck around each other to pretend they're in the same continuity or care about each other is less appealing
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  13. #1753
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    I wouldn’t go that far, seeing as the Avengers had from New Avengers to Infinity as the undisputed top dogs (every event after has tended to be the Avengers going with another book’s flow), so a shift is not unexpected, especially as chasing after movie fans hasn’t really worked.

    As fun as Hickman’s Avengers was, very little of it seems to have stuck other than painting the Avengers as ivory tower idiots who self-righteously bully the other teams and can’t do anything but implode

    As tantamount to an admission of the commercial realties ad it is, I do wonder if the Avengers/General Marvel line would have been better off had the original plan of Uncanny Avengers becoming the flagship happened instead.

  14. #1754
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    I read the King in Black preview. Did the Kree and Skrull actually abandon their fleet above Earth in this event??? How the heck did the get home? And aren't starships / interstellar warships expensive?
    Namor the Sub-Mariner, Marvel's oldest character, will have been published for 85 years in 2024. So where's my GOOD Namor anniversary ongoing, Marvel?

  15. #1755
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    I read the King in Black preview. Did the Kree and Skrull actually abandon their fleet above Earth in this event??? How the heck did the get home? And aren't starships / interstellar warships expensive?
    I think they left the ones that Iron Man EMPd in Empyre #1.

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