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  1. #91
    Spectacular Member Skullkid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    If a white guy was taking a white guy’s namesake, no one would give a shit. We’ve already seen this go on. Just like we saw all the unbridled racism make itself known during ANAD or Ironheart. Let’s not act brand new.
    You know it would help your point if you didn't strawman like that, especially when you talk about ANAD and Ironheart and most of those changes were ill-conceived and poorly executed and that's why people hated them, to say racism is the only reason shows very poor understanding of what the actual problem was.

  2. #92
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyajenkins View Post
    Everyone hates kid cable taking the ‘real’ cables place, ditto teen Scott trying to take the place of rightclops. I think teen beast was the only one people preferred to the original, but that only because he had become so despised, lol. Even though new pyro only existed for a few issues, most people were saying, why isn’t guggenheim using it he real pyro? And there was much rejoicing when ‘real pyro’ showed up in Mauraders.
    Two out of the three examples you gave me weren’t someone being replaced. Those are the exact same characters with vastly different characterizations that didn’t jive with those characters’ fanbases. I don’t recall seeing anyone pissed about a brand new Pyro. Fans of the OG are generally also fans of the new one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skullkid View Post
    You know it would help your point if you didn't strawman like that, especially when you talk about ANAD and Ironheart and most of those changes were ill-conceived and poorly executed and that's why people hated them, to say racism is the only reason shows very poor understanding of what the actual problem was.
    Notice how I didn’t say that was the only reason. To say that there wasn’t any racist intent behind a lot of the backlash that Riri received is some reeeeeaaaallllllll ignorance. Their were problems with the relaunch but bad news, if your complaint was “forced diversity” instead of “yeah, im all for being inclusivity in my comic books, but i don’t like how they’re tearing down heroes i care about in order to do so” then the diagnosis just came in: ya racist.

  3. #93
    Spectacular Member Skullkid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Notice how I didn’t say that was the only reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    If a white guy was taking a white guy’s namesake, no one would give a shit.
    Hmm
    Really sounds like it

  4. #94
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skullkid View Post
    Hmm
    Really sounds like it
    Those two aren’t mutually exclusive lmao. Not critiquing white men supplanting other white male hero identities doesn’t exclude the fact that racism was part of the hate against ANAD.

  5. #95
    Astonishing Member mugiwara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani5 View Post
    I don’t understand why Kwannon went to Krakoa in the first place. Why is she trippin about Betsy when it was the Hand that merge their bodies and minds?
    Exactly. It was not only the Hand, it was her boyfriend, who did that in hope to save her because she was braindead. Betsy never asked to be caught in their assassin club drama.
    Bringing back the old, killing the young: that's the Marvel way

  6. #96
    Emma Been Frost Perfection/Emma 2's Avatar
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    Kwannon baby you can be but so mad at Betsy. Save this fucking energy for Mojo or Matsu'o. It's a definitely skip but I hope someone buys it so the X-Forum can have our weekly discussions about Laura's poor characterization
    Emma Frost & Aero fan

  7. #97
    Spectacular Member Skullkid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Those two aren’t mutually exclusive lmao. Not critiquing white men supplanting other white male hero identities doesn’t exclude the fact that racism was part of the hate against ANAD.
    So basically you'll say racism isn't the only reason people had problems with ANAD but it is also the only reason you'll give, while you dismiss the idea people would have problems with their favorite characters getting replaced by other white guys.
    See you're not helping yourself here, especially since forced diversity is a thing and if you're saying Ironheart isn't an example of that you are just flat out delusional.

  8. #98
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    It’s soooooo ironic. Like the irony was so thick even Jean’s thighs got jealous. I guess the unfortunate thing about colonization is that there’s a sense of entitlement that is hard for people to shake off realizing that the stuff they own actually wasn’t theirs to begin with.
    lol this is sooooo relevant and can apply to most entertainment....lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Skullkid View Post
    So basically you'll say racism isn't the only reason people had problems with ANAD but it is also the only reason you'll give, while you dismiss the idea people would have problems with their favorite characters getting replaced by other white guys.
    See you're not helping yourself here, especially since forced diversity is a thing and if you're saying Ironheart isn't an example of that you are just flat out delusional.
    No idea bout what happens in the Marvel U outside X-Men...
    Buuuuuuut theres no way NuPyro, WiFi, and the 05 in 'replacing' their OG counterparts receive the same amount of flak than if they were minorities doing the replacing Exactly why 616 Flatscans worry about supplantation doesnt seem far fetched to me
    #ripped
    GrindrStone(D)

  9. #99
    Spectacular Member Skullkid's Avatar
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    I already have trouble taking people who unironically say "flatscan" seriously so and I'll try to say this in the least sarcastic way I can, for one you're trying to compare Pyro being replaced to Iron Man, Thor and Hulk being replaced and the biggest problem with that is it's Pyro most people do not give a damn about Pyro the same way people care about Iron Man, Hulk, and Thor, they have long-running series and are leads in one of most the successful movie franchises around Pyro is a B-List XMen antagonist.
    Then you have Kid Cable, I know a lot of people who don't like him either and again you can't compare Cable being replaced to Iron Man being replaced, they're not anywhere near the same status for the same amount of people to be outraged, and then Cable's a time traveler that alone makes harder to care about his death since that fact gives them like a million ways to bring him back.
    And moving on to the O5, they never replaced anyone, the adult versions are all alive when they were brought to the present(except Jean but she's pretty much known for dying) and people still didn't like them regardless, so Marvel had to make a whole event centered saying "Yes the O5 are gone to the past and are never coming back" and then pretty much used that as a way to bring back the original Jean and Cyclops.

  10. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skullkid View Post
    I already have trouble taking people who unironically say "flatscan" seriously so and I'll try to say this in the least sarcastic way I can, for one you're trying to compare Pyro being replaced to Iron Man, Thor and Hulk being replaced and the biggest problem with that is it's Pyro most people do not give a damn about Pyro the same way people care about Iron Man, Hulk, and Thor, they have long-running series and are leads in one of most the successful movie franchises around Pyro is a B-List XMen antagonist.
    Then you have Kid Cable, I know a lot of people who don't like him either and again you can't compare Cable being replaced to Iron Man being replaced, they're not anywhere near the same status for the same amount of people to be outraged, and then Cable's a time traveler that alone makes harder to care about his death since that fact gives them like a million ways to bring him back.
    And moving on to the O5, they never replaced anyone, the adult versions are all alive when they were brought to the present(except Jean but she's pretty much known for dying) and people still didn't like them regardless, so Marvel had to make a whole event centered saying "Yes the O5 are gone to the past and are never coming back" and then pretty much used that as a way to bring back the original Jean and Cyclops.
    I think that's what pissed me off most about Extinction, to be honest. Like, there are more than a million ways to explain having two versions of characters around at once, and I've seen it done for fan favourites over the years, but for some reason this particular group was so unforgivable for staying in the present time; for some reason it was suddenly 'confusing' and 'made stories not matter,' and nobody was happy until they were 100% gone. Like, I'll never forgive that portion of the fandom for it.

  11. #101
    Ultimate Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skullkid View Post
    I already have trouble taking people who unironically say "flatscan" seriously so and I'll try to say this in the least sarcastic way I can, for one you're trying to compare Pyro being replaced to Iron Man, Thor and Hulk being replaced and the biggest problem with that is it's Pyro most people do not give a damn about Pyro the same way people care about Iron Man, Hulk, and Thor, they have long-running series and are leads in one of most the successful movie franchises around Pyro is a B-List XMen antagonist.
    Then you have Kid Cable, I know a lot of people who don't like him either and again you can't compare Cable being replaced to Iron Man being replaced, they're not anywhere near the same status for the same amount of people to be outraged, and then Cable's a time traveler that alone makes harder to care about his death since that fact gives them like a million ways to bring him back.
    And moving on to the O5, they never replaced anyone, the adult versions are all alive when they were brought to the present(except Jean but she's pretty much known for dying) and people still didn't like them regardless, so Marvel had to make a whole event centered saying "Yes the O5 are gone to the past and are never coming back" and then pretty much used that as a way to bring back the original Jean and Cyclops.
    Jean was already back and Cyclops ressurrection had little to do with O5

    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    I think that's what pissed me off most about Extinction, to be honest. Like, there are more than a million ways to explain having two versions of characters around at once, and I've seen it done for fan favourites over the years, but for some reason this particular group was so unforgivable for staying in the present time; for some reason it was suddenly 'confusing' and 'made stories not matter,' and nobody was happy until they were 100% gone. Like, I'll never forgive that portion of the fandom for it.
    The thing is that 2 version sof same character occupies slots on teams. X-men books are already bad on diversity without a bunch of duplicates
    Last edited by spirit2011; 12-14-2019 at 09:15 AM.

  12. #102
    Spectacular Member Skullkid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Jean was already back and Cyclops ressurrection had little to do with O5



    The thing is that 2 version sof same character occupies slots on teams. X-men books are already bad on diversity without a bunch of duplicates
    Well technically the events are unrelated in-universe but Cyclops being alive was the last page reveal in Extermination and it's certainly not a coincidence Jean was brought back to life almost immediately before.
    Last edited by Skullkid; 12-14-2019 at 09:34 AM.

  13. #103
    Ultimate Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skullkid View Post
    Well technically the events are unrelated in-universe but Cyclops being alive was the last page reveal in Extermination and it's certainly not a coincidence Jean was brought back to life almost immediately before.
    I don't think Jean back to life has anything to do with extermination. Extermination was a clean up for Hickman, bringing Jean seemed like a decison from Paniccia

  14. #104
    Mighty Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Two out of the three examples you gave me weren’t someone being replaced. Those are the exact same characters with vastly different characterizations that didn’t jive with those characters’ fanbases. I don’t recall seeing anyone pissed about a brand new Pyro. Fans of the OG are generally also fans of the new one.



    Notice how I didn’t say that was the only reason. To say that there wasn’t any racist intent behind a lot of the backlash that Riri received is some reeeeeaaaallllllll ignorance. Their were problems with the relaunch but bad news, if your complaint was “forced diversity” instead of “yeah, im all for being inclusivity in my comic books, but i don’t like how they’re tearing down heroes i care about in order to do so” then the diagnosis just came in: ya racist.
    There was definitely racist intent anyone that says different is lying.
    Reading list: Far Sector (DC), Marauders (Marvel), X-Force (Marvel), X-Men (Marvel), Miles Morales: Spider-Man (Marvel), Venom (Marvel), My Hero Academia (VIZ), Killadelphia (Image), Bitter Root (Image), Black Hammer: Age of Doom (Darkhorse)

  15. #105
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skullkid View Post
    So basically you'll say racism isn't the only reason people had problems with ANAD but it is also the only reason you'll give, while you dismiss the idea people would have problems with their favorite characters getting replaced by other white guys.
    See you're not helping yourself here, especially since forced diversity is a thing and if you're saying Ironheart isn't an example of that you are just flat out delusional.
    Debate with your mother on this one. Including people who aren’t white, straight, etc etc isn’t “forced” lmao we’re real people. Unless you have this same energy for forced whiteness and compulsory heterosexuality which I’m sure you don’t, then this is more racist rhetoric that people in CG use. Notice how that same language is used in their videos while they keep yelling at how they’re not racist.

    Like I said, racism isn’t the only reason people had problems with ANAD. Like I just said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Notice how I didn’t say that was the only reason.
    But the fact that people viciously went after the legacy characters but went quiet when Bucky was Captain America or when Dick Grayson was Batman or when Wally West was Flash. Even in controversial stories, notice how Doc Ock and Ben Reilly are still beloved characters even if their stories got critiqued. Meanwhile Riri’s being called a sociopath for.....being rightfully emotionally stunted w/ PTSD after surviving a shooting.

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