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  1. #16
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astroman View Post
    Which, outside of a Platonic ideal, still needs an economy and currency.
    Not necessarily. If there’s no private property and all production/exchange is provided from Krakoa with only the expectation that you’ll exchange a little bit of psychic energy, what’s the point of money?

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Not necessarily. If there’s no private property and all production/exchange is provided from Krakoa with only the expectation that you’ll exchange a little bit of psychic energy, what’s the point of money?
    I think the poster was more talking about outside countries. What they do internally is one thing but externally they need some form of currency for successful trade. Like wolverine drinks beer and what if someone wanted to go for a pizza or have something foreign ordered. They would need to pay for it. The drugs are trading for recognition
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  3. #18
    Incredible Member Astroman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Quiet Councilor View Post
    Do they need a currency, though? Krakoa seems to just provide for all their basic needs, and their mutations largely account for the rest. They may just have a bartering system, starting with their agreement with Krakoa.
    Those are the sorts of questions (and their complex answers) that would be fascinating to see them address.

    Does Krakoa as a nation need currency in order to support an economy with other nations? If so how is that economy supported without the populace contributing to that? Is there a solution that doesn't rely on the old models? Is it ALL going to be derived from the pharmaceuticals, etc.?

    For those who operate on Krakoa and other countries, do they need to have a Krakoan income that could be converted to other currency when they then go to those other countries?

    If someone is on a mission in New York, and needs to use a credit card or buy a latte, where do they get the disposable cash?

    Someone wants to go old fashioned and buy someone that cool new consumer product for someone's birthday from some other national market, how do they do that if they don't have something that can be used in a transaction?

  4. #19
    Incredible Member Astroman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    I think the poster was more talking about outside countries. What they do internally is one thing but externally they need some form of currency for successful trade. Like wolverine drinks beer and what if someone wanted to go for a pizza or have something foreign ordered. They would need to pay for it. The drugs are trading for recognition
    Exactly. And, I might be wrong, but as I wrote above, I remember them saying there is no REAL ESTATE (as it is an extension of Krakoa itself) not that there is no private property. And every Communist country in the real world has had some form of actual currency and things you owned. Somethings are just impractical and unsantiary to be communal property... like underwear, a journal to write in, tailored clothing, etc.

    If they did show a pure communist ideal manifested, that again would be something that needs more explanation than just "Their communists."

  5. #20
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    I would guess that Krakoa would use the most valuable currency. But either way trade or bartering woukd seem to work. All that said it woukd seem that Krakoa would look to be completely self sufficient. They wouldnt need anything from any other nation. They have there own everything

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astroman View Post
    Those are the sorts of questions (and their complex answers) that would be fascinating to see them address.

    Does Krakoa as a nation need currency in order to support an economy with other nations? If so how is that economy supported without the populace contributing to that? Is there a solution that doesn't rely on the old models?

    For those who operate on Krakoa and other countries, do they need to have a Krakoan income that could be converted to other currency when they then go to those other countries?

    If someone is on a mission in New York, and needs to use a credit card or buy a latte, where do they get the disposable cash?
    Agreed on seeing it addressed. The mechanics should be fun to see.

    Obviously, there has to be some monetary exchange abroad and a way to do it, but so far, Krakoa has been communism in its purest form. Everybody’s needs are met, and we’re seeing people serve the needs of the state, in exchange. Many of them have functional roles based on their mutations, like Trinary, Selene, Cypher, etc. and Omegas are even referred to as resources. Plus, they see the state as themselves rather than this nebulous idea. We’ll see how long it lasts, but this is a communist paradise.

  7. #22
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    I think the poster was more talking about outside countries. What they do internally is one thing but externally they need some form of currency for successful trade. Like wolverine drinks beer and what if someone wanted to go for a pizza or have something foreign ordered. They would need to pay for it. The drugs are trading for recognition
    I don’t see why the drugs wouldn’t also be for trade. It’s also doesn’t seem necessary that Krakoa maintain any trade with other countries. It would be fun to explore but I’m sure (for example) shipping medicine to countries in exchange for vegetation or non-electric appliances wouldn’t be out of the question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Astroman View Post
    Exactly. And, I might be wrong, but as I wrote above, I remember them saying there is no REAL ESTATE (as it is an extension of Krakoa itself) not that there is no private property. And every Communist country in the real world has had some form of actual currency and things you owned. Somethings are just impractical and unsantiary to be communal property... like underwear, a journal to write in, tailored clothing, etc.

    If they did show a pure communist ideal manifested, that again would be something that needs more explanation than just "Their communists."
    Personal property =/= private property

  8. #23
    Incredible Member Astroman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    I don’t see why the drugs wouldn’t also be for trade. It’s also doesn’t seem necessary that Krakoa maintain any trade with other countries. It would be fun to explore but I’m sure (for example) shipping medicine to countries in exchange for vegetation or non-electric appliances wouldn’t be out of the question.



    Personal property =/= private property
    From a macro-economic and theoretical POV, absolutely. But how would you see that translating into a practical way of life for both Krakoa the nation that has to work economically with the rest of the world's nations and the citizens that need to: 1) operate within other countries; and 2) support foundationally the economics of Krakoa the nation?

    I only have digital until my hardcopy collection of HoX/PoX arrives (so I might be misremembering), but didn't Xavier say that nations that didn't recognize Krakoa would have to pay for any drugs? Also, that's the whole point of the Hellfire Club. How can they do business with outside entities without currency and a somewhat recognizable economy?

    How would a realized ideal of pure communism allow them to interact with nations that don't recognize that ideal?

  9. #24

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    Krakoa is a post-scarcity society. The island provides all their food, shelter, and energy needs. They don't even die. Of course they don't need money on the island. It could well be that the Hellfire Trading Company(selling the Krakoa medicines to the humans in both black and overt markets)'s profits are somehow shared amongst all mutants(should they wish to venture out into man's world), but with Shaw and Emma running that ****, it doesn't seem likely. Maybe that will be addressed more directly in Marauders down the line.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    It’s like the Federation - they only need money for when dealing with less advanced societies. Shaw has a swimming pool full of dollar bills anyway, the big gauche diva.

  11. #26
    Fantastic Member rdman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Maybe it's the wine, but it's been mentioned several times Krakoa grows money. What kind of money? Is there a potential that it will ruin the economy of other nations? Does Krakoa have their own currency that mutants can use when they go into the outside world or is it printing u.s dollars that could potentially make an economy unstable? This has been in the back of my mind for quite some time.
    Perhaps the Mauraders will answer more on how the Krakoan economy works and what currency they use.

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