Did Abrams and Disney Just Toss The Last Jedi And Rian Under The Bus?

[Sutekh]

I was kind of crushed that SOLO's box office performance meant we'd never get a Donald Glover Lando film. Would have loved to see more Han films too, with them bumping into each other frequently in cameos.

Same here. I enjoyed Solo quite a bit, and Glover's Lando most of all. Even the new character, Kira?, was cool. I think I like the smaller films (and stories), like Solo and Rogue One (and the Mandalorian), over the bigger spectacles with ginormous casts and 'fate of the galaxy' size stakes, but not enough people agreed with that to make it work at the box office (or, perhaps, expectations (and budget) were too high, and it might have been entirely successful enough if Disney hadn't expected summer-blockbuster Avengers-level dumptrucks-full-of-money in return for it).

[David Walton]

Same here. I enjoyed Solo quite a bit, and Glover's Lando most of all. Even the new character, Kira?, was cool. I think I like the smaller films (and stories), like Solo and Rogue One (and the Mandalorian), over the bigger spectacles with ginormous casts and 'fate of the galaxy' size stakes, but not enough people agreed with that to make it work at the box office (or, perhaps, expectations (and budget) were too high, and it might have been entirely successful enough if Disney hadn't expected summer-blockbuster Avengers-level dumptrucks-full-of-money in return for it).

Totally agreed. To be honest, while I enjoyed all the ST films, I wish they had just gone with stuff like SOLO and MANDALORIAN to begin with. You can only raise the stakes for so long before diminishing returns sets in. And fans have had their own idea of where Luke, Han and Leia's stories might have ended up for so many years that it's best to just leave some mystique.

I do really like the idea of stories set thousands of years in the future where OT characters can show up in holocron form or as legends.

[SiegePerilous02]

Finn says during one of the mission briefings that what Holdo did was a one off. They are implying that it is a maneuver that only has the slimmest chance of success and was, for lack of a better word, a fluke.

Which I didn't buy whatsoever.

I may be mistaken, but it looked like the Super Death Star Destroyer that was above the Ewok moon got destroyed in the same way.

As if some random rebel was like "**** you Finn, pedal to the metal!"

[Joker]

Your opinion is still yours, my dude. You have every right to talk about why you disliked the prequels, but if your saying that your limited knowledge of film-making on a technical level (which is obvious) amounts to insight into good or bad cinematography, you don't really have the...high ground...on that.

Except that he's completely right. He's not alone, either. It's been addressed many many times, by many people. The cinematography is bland as beige.

It's also a known fact that Lucas' then wife, edited the Original Star Wars, the only film Lucas directed, and the comparisons between what he had done, and what she turned it in to are night and day.

Lucas is a wonderful idea man, but he's not a great filmmaker or director. He knew that. Somewhere along the way he forgot.

[David Walton]

I love the PT aesthetic.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Except that he's completely right. He's not alone, either. It's been addressed many many times, by many people. The cinematography is bland as beige.

There's two kinds of Star Wars prequel negative criticism. The general consensus, and rational consenus, is that the movie's story and writing weak while otherwise it was visually striking and beautiful. There's also complaints about the movies having an entirely different aesthetic than the originals, to which one can say well if that floats your boat, since the prequels are deliberately creating a new look and vision and is trying to show the Republic right before Palpatine and the Empire came along and f--ked it up.

And then there are people who obviously know utterly zilch about the film-making processing holding forth on stuff like cinematography and editing to say Lucas never had any talent and that he was just some guy with an idea bailed out by other people, and was always a hack who had other people carry water for him.

The former is in the realm of reasonable criticism and disapproval, the latter is complete spite and irrational hatred, and personal dislike masquerading on faux-objectivity.

It's also a known fact that Lucas' then wife, edited the Original Star Wars, the only film Lucas directed,

George Lucas directed numerous shorts in UCLA, then after that he directed THX-1138, and American Graffiti. His shorts at UCLA were already highly valued by experimental film-makers of that era. And THX-1138 is also a classic science-fiction movie. American Graffiti is likewise one of the best movies of the Seventies and immensely influential on numerous movies.

A New Hope is not the only film Lucas directed. So your entire argument is nullified.

Furthermore, editing the original Star Wars has absolutely nothing to do with the writing, casting, production, direction and overall stuff like deciding the tone, vision, and aesthetic. You cannot conjure a movie out of nothing at the editing table.

Likewise, Marcia Lucas wasn't the only or in fact the final editor of A New Hope. That was Paul Hirsch who worked with Lucas on the actual final cut of the movie.

The reason for Marcia Lucas intervening wasn't because Lucas was some incompetent. It was because the original editor John Jympson (who cut A Hard Day's Night and other notable films) made a mess of things in the original rough cut assembly. He didn't understand the movie or Lucas' intentions which meant that Lucas had to fire him and create a new rough cut and assembly. That's where Marcia Lucas played a crucial and key role. When she did that, Lucas then worked on that with Paul Hirsch to get to the final version with Richard Chew.

At the same time as Star Wars, Marcia Lucas was primarily working as an editor on New York New York by Martin Scorsese so she couldn't work exclusively on the edit of A New Hope.

Lucas is a wonderful idea man,

Go out and make a movie like THX-1138, and then you can come in and blather about stuff you know nothing about.

[Joker]

A New Hope is not the only film Lucas directed. So your entire argument is nullified.

It's almost like context is important in the conversation. I'm well aware of George's filmography. I've seen it all. I clearly meant within the OT. But hey, nice talking to you.

Go out and make a movie like THX-1138, and then you can come in and blather about stuff you know nothing about.

Where's your movie? If my filmmaking history is the only thing that validates my opinion, then it's the only thing that will validate yours, too. Fair is fair, right?

So upload your Sci-Fi masterpiece, and we can talk then.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

It's almost like context is important in the conversation.

You said it was the only movie Lucas directed, so you didn't qualify that statement. And even then, Lucas in fact ghost-directed parts of ROTJ too since Richard Marquand was far more unpopular with the cast and crew than Kershner was.

I'm well aware of George's filmography.

For someone who has such contempt for the man and who so thoroughly disrespects his work, I don't think you have any right to be on first name basis with him.

Where's your movie?

I am not the one masquerading my hatred here.

If my filmmaking history is the only thing that validates my opinion,

If your opinion is stuff like "good idea man" and a total ignorance and contempt for the actual nature of film production, then it's quite right to ask you to put your money where your mouth should be.

[Joker]

You said it was the only movie Lucas directed, so you didn't qualify that statement. And even then, Lucas in fact ghost-directed parts of ROTJ too since Richard Marquand was far more unpopular with the cast and crew than Kershner was.



For someone who has such contempt for the man and who so thoroughly disrespects his work, I don't think you have any right to be on first name basis with him.



I am not the one masquerading my hatred here.



If your opinion is stuff like "good idea man" and a total ignorance and contempt for the actual nature of film production, then it's quite right to ask you to put your money where your mouth should be.

Dude, you're being rude and for that reason, I am out.

[Punisher007]

It's amusing to see all of the critics seemingly finally waking up an realizing that there was no real plan for the ST. Like where have you been for the last 5+ years?

[titanfan]

It's amusing to see all of the critics seemingly finally waking up an realizing that there was no real plan for the ST. Like where have you been for the last 5+ years?

Hoping there was some master plan that all of us just weren't smart enough to see yet...

[TriggerWarning]

It's amusing to see all of the critics seemingly finally waking up an realizing that there was no real plan for the ST. Like where have you been for the last 5+ years?

Actually there was a plan, Rian Johnson just threw it out which made everything look like there wasn't a plan.

There were a lot of convincing theories out there after Force Awakens that Rey was Palpatines Granddaughter. There were some very obvious visual clues like her fighting style that was lifted straight from Palpatine in the prequels.

Hard to dig up old articles about this since searches tend to grab all the stuff written currently but here is a post on reddit where someone lays out the case for Rey being descended from Palpatine back in 2015. This theory was prominent back then with lots of posts and articles written about it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspe...ror_palpatine/

[Anthony W]

It's amusing to see all of the critics seemingly finally waking up an realizing that there was no real plan for the ST. Like where have you been for the last 5+ years?

Watching too many Marvel movies to think too much about it.

[Joker]

Actually there was a plan, Rian Johnson just threw it out which made everything look like there wasn't a plan.

There were a lot of convincing theories out there after Force Awakens that Rey was Palpatines Granddaughter. There were some very obvious visual clues like her fighting style that was lifted straight from Palpatine in the prequels.

Hard to dig up old articles about this since searches tend to grab all the stuff written currently but here is a post on reddit where someone lays out the case for Rey being descended from Palpatine back in 2015. This theory was prominent back then with lots of posts and articles written about it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspe...ror_palpatine/

A) a reddit post does not equal a plan.

B) if there was a plan, and anyone at Disney cared about it, Johnson wouldn't have been allowed to just throw it out.

[Zero Hunter]

That scene with Rey throwing the lightsaber and Luke catching it was a direct "screw you" to Johnson. There is no other way to see it.