View Poll Results: Which Xmen stories do you prefer?

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  • More grounded storytelling

    25 75.76%
  • The more outlandish..time travel, magic, aliens etc.

    8 24.24%
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  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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    Both are cool as combination.

  2. #17
    Mighty Member Beaddle's Avatar
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    I voted more grounded stories but I almost equally prefer both. In a manner, they are both connected.

    The Cyclops,Emma and Jean love triangle was a grounded story that I liked.

    The outlandish time travel story could also turn into another soap opera ie. the Cyclops, Jean, Cable, Apocalypse, Madelyne Pryor story arc which had time travel.

    In other time travel arcs great science fiction and fantasy tales can come out of this situation. ie. Days Of Future Past and Age of apocalypse that also had many grounded moments.

    X-Men at the very core is a soap, either it goes grounded or outlandish there is still usually a sufficient amount of plot and story structure to keep readers interested.

    In the outside world, X-Men is more seen as grounded as the basic concept of xmen itself , trying to live in peace with humans in a world that hates and fears them works more as a grounded concept because there are many realistic parallels to that.

    if you have never read any xmen comics and have only seen most of their movies and cartoons, it is obvious the series shines best when they tell their more grounded stories compared to other marvel superheroes.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 12-14-2019 at 02:22 AM.

  3. #18
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    I like the burger and the fries.

  4. #19
    Claremazon Feminist Shadowcat's Avatar
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    I like both.

  5. #20
    That's what makes it fun! Ricochet Rita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    I think the themes work better in a grounded context.

    Once that's established, like TQC says, there's room for expansion into wilder settings and concepts. I'd be very careful though. I might like Limbo and DOFP too, but I despise Shi'ar nonsense.
    100% agree.

    Personally, space adventures use to bore me, unless they're so great as the former Brood arc. I always prefer grounded stories based on which it's possible to develop magic/interdimensional/time travelling stories.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I like good stories. There are bad stories that are "grounded" and good stories that are outlandish.

    The thing is the X-Men were never grounded. The most traditional X-Men status-quo, i.e. the X-Men are all students at a mansion run by a kindly wheelchaired professor who also has a secret jet, a Danger Room, and so on...is still pretty outlandish and way off from any tangible real-world place. Spider-Man struggling to pay rent for his apartment this ain't.

    What made the X-Men grounded and special was the melodrama, the emotional, the socio-political metaphor, the internal character dilemmas and so on?
    Truly. Look at the Phoenix Saga. Jean turns into a space goddess who eats stars, but itís the most beloved X-story of all time because itís rooted in relatable human emotion.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I like good stories. There are bad stories that are "grounded" and good stories that are outlandish.

    The thing is the X-Men were never grounded. The most traditional X-Men status-quo, i.e. the X-Men are all students at a mansion run by a kindly wheelchaired professor who also has a secret jet, a Danger Room, and so on...is still pretty outlandish and way off from any tangible real-world place. Spider-Man struggling to pay rent for his apartment this ain't.

    What made the X-Men grounded and special was the melodrama, the emotional, the socio-political metaphor, the internal character dilemmas and so on?
    I agree too.
    "Ö something strong and soft and green,
    thrusting through the dead and petrified grayness."
    Alan Moore.

    If I offended you, be assured that it wasn't my intention. English is not my first language.

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricochet Rita View Post
    100% agree.

    Personally, space adventures use to bore me, unless they're so great as the former Brood arc. I always prefer grounded stories based on which it's possible to develop magic/interdimensional/time travelling stories.
    Let me be clear: I consider Stranger Things and 12 Monkeys grounded. Watchmen is the epitome of grounded and it features an omniscient blue god as a character. It’s more of a tone thing than a content thing.

    Which is why Excalibur, should it become a film, can be outlandish comedic adventure straight out the gate.

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Quiet Councilor View Post
    Truly. Look at the Phoenix Saga. Jean turns into a space goddess who eats stars, but it’s the most beloved X-story of all time because it’s rooted in relatable human emotion.
    Yeah. Same applies to Days of Future Past, also The Octopusheim Saga, and The Trial of Magneto. I mean Magneto is a character who has had experiences that are beyond most people...he survived the Holocaust, enduring suffering none of us can really understand, and he then became a terrorist and revolutionary ideologue (which again not many people share) and yet he's considered the most relatable of all Marvel major villains.

    Wolverine is a century-plus Canadian who has fought multiple wars, been subject to human experimentation, and has killed people in the thousands...yet people relate to him plenty enough. He's the most popular X-Man (not saying he's the best X-Man mind you, he's the most popular).

    I actually think that's what the X-Men is about, it's about challenging and enlarging our ability to empathize with experiences so remote from what we think of as normal. John Byrne said that part of the reason he walked away from the X-Men and Claremont was that he felt that there wasn't anyone normal in the X-Men anymore, that everyone kept having outlandish adventures and stories. That was a bug to him, but it's actually a feature. What Claremont was doing was challenging the idea of normality, and he did that by putting the readers directly in the mindset of the X-Men and their world, to the point that we see normal society from the outside, from the margins, rather than from within. Hickman's HoX/PoX takes that a step further where basically the last remaining "normal" Claremont character (Moira) turns out to be in many ways the most uncanny yet.

    And again Claremont was right. Which was the biggest comics in the '80s - The X-Men. Which is the biggest comics now, Hickman's X-Men run.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Yeah. Same applies to Days of Future Past, also The Octopusheim Saga, and The Trial of Magneto. I mean Magneto is a character who has had experiences that are beyond most people...he survived the Holocaust, enduring suffering none of us can really understand, and he then became a terrorist and revolutionary ideologue (which again not many people share) and yet he's considered the most relatable of all Marvel major villains.

    Wolverine is a century-plus Canadian who has fought multiple wars, been subject to human experimentation, and has killed people in the thousands...yet people relate to him plenty enough. He's the most popular X-Man (not saying he's the best X-Man mind you, he's the most popular).

    I actually think that's what the X-Men is about, it's about challenging and enlarging our ability to empathize with experiences so remote from what we think of as normal. John Byrne said that part of the reason he walked away from the X-Men and Claremont was that he felt that there wasn't anyone normal in the X-Men anymore, that everyone kept having outlandish adventures and stories. That was a bug to him, but it's actually a feature. What Claremont was doing was challenging the idea of normality, and he did that by putting the readers directly in the mindset of the X-Men and their world, to the point that we see normal society from the outside, from the margins, rather than from within. Hickman's HoX/PoX takes that a step further where basically the last remaining "normal" Claremont character (Moira) turns out to be in many ways the most uncanny yet.

    And again Claremont was right. Which was the biggest comics in the '80s - The X-Men. Which is the biggest comics now, Hickman's X-Men run.
    It is the point I don't understand: even if Claremont's X-men were having outlandish experiences, they stayed human enough I could related with, they wanted what almost most people want: peace, recognition, a family.
    Now, Hickman's X-men is all about: "No, no, we are not like the 'humans', we are quite different" and to make their point, they are trying to do everything different. And still, a lot of readers are able to relate with them, like they could be included in this universe if they want to, despite the fact they don't belong to the 'right race'. Well, it's not my case: I can't relate.
    Last edited by Zelena; 12-14-2019 at 08:15 AM.
    "Ö something strong and soft and green,
    thrusting through the dead and petrified grayness."
    Alan Moore.

    If I offended you, be assured that it wasn't my intention. English is not my first language.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    It is the point I don't understand: even if Claremont's X-men were having outlandish experiences, they stayed human enough I could related with, they wanted what almost most people want: peace, recognition, a family.
    Now, Hickman's X-men is all about: "No, no, we are not like the 'humans', we are quite different" and to make their point, they are trying to do everything different. And still, a lot of readers are able to relate with them, like they could be included in this universe if they want to, despite the fact they don't belong to the 'right race'. Well, it's not my case: I can't relate.
    You’re forgetting that humans are the ones who told mutants they didn’t belong repeatedly and through genocidal means. Separatism was forced on them. If you want a real world comparison, look at the LGBTQ community. We were rejected by the mainstream and had to go build our own world. That’s what Krakoa feels like except on a grander scale.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    It is the point I don't understand: even if Claremont's X-men were having outlandish experiences, they stayed human enough I could related with, they wanted what almost most people want: peace, recognition, a family.
    Now, Hickman's X-men is all about: "No, no, we are not like the 'humans', we are quite different" and to make their point, they are trying to do everything different. And still, a lot of readers are able to relate with them, like they could be included in this universe if they want to, despite the fact they don't belong to the 'right race'. Well, it's not my case: I can't relate.
    In terms of metaphor, i.e. the X-Men repeatedly having alternate futures where they are sentinel fodder, a present where every previous attempt at helping the humans was spat in their face, where the so-called "heroes" do zilch for them...the X-Men of HoX/PoX are relatable to readers in terms of generational issues. You know, "OK Boomer". There's a sense of righteous anger and disappointment directed at the status-quo, a sense of a future far reduced from the past, and a present where the mainstream doesn't really allow any platform for the marginalized to make their voices heard.

    And likewise, what Hickman is doing is contextually not far from what Claremont did in the context of the '70s and '80s where Claremont/Byrne banked on turning a WASP-teen centric book into a multicultural melting pot with heroic Russians, teen Jewish girls, a Canadian guy being the cool one and the most whitebread of the X-Men, Jean Grey having bizarre sex fantasies.

    Hickman is just trying to keep the X-Men uncanny and weird. Claremont was the first to do that since the 05 X-Men weren't truly Uncanny or Strange.

  13. #28

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    Honestly, I like both.

    Start it from a relatively grounded place and pile the outlandish stuff on top of that--that's what makes it so fun!

  14. #29
    Mysterious Telepath Spinster Sinister's Avatar
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    Both? I think the time travel trope is tired now though. Really any story element can be great when executed well. I really do love street level stories and mind blowing space epics. Just gotta have finesse when doing either.

  15. #30
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    I like both of them but comics are a visual medium which are not motion picture or cinema therefore I believe it can't always manifest emotions in my opinion and that's one of the reasons I have liked grounded comics more than often.

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