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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    Not really. First, the episode didn't say he gave them up permanently. Like the other meta "jokes" and references in the crossover, like Sara saying she didn't want the Legends involved in another "crossover" and the Monitor calling last year "Elseworlds," Lois' "about a decade" quip to Clark and the fact that the newspaper articles stop at 2017 with Lex president (the finale stated Lex was elected in 2018), it's almost certainly meant to be the fall of 2019. That being the case, Clark's daughters are twins and likely only about 4 months old. If it's meant to be exactly 10 years since his Superman debut, he could have a 2 year old and a 1 year old (and that's only if Lois got pregnant the second time almost immediately after giving birth to her first daughter). Second, neither the script nor any of the writers have said it was a permanent power loss. Meaning, Clark basically just took a year of paternity leave either for <1 year old twins or 1 year leave first for his 2 year old when she was a baby and another year off as his second baby grew to a year old. As far as what the show explicitly stated and implicitly suggested, this is not a long term retirement.

    Second, this Superman may have only been a public superhero for about a decade, but he had been saving people since was a teen and been working as a hero in the shadows for about 3 years prior to becoming Superman. He defeated almost all of his major villains and has a host of superfriends ready to pick up the slack. He's also not unlike Hoechlin's Superman who said in the first COIE episode that he had intended to "give up the cape" to be a father. Meanwhile, you have other Supermen, like the one Routh was ostensibly playing, who in Superman II and Superman Returns gave up his powers to be with Lois or abandoned Earth to seek out the remnants of Krypton, which are not exactly superior reasons to make such a decision.

    I will say, contrary to others' claims, SV Clark was not presented as someone who wanted to be normal or not be a hero. He just didn't want to be a freak. He was also a teenager who was figuring out his identity. The show was his journey to wanting to be a hero and embracing that. There are several lines throughout the final seasons that make it very clear that Clark wanted and liked being a hero. It's not "in character" for him to regress back to turning away from that. And that's the key here, he's not regressing or turning away. He's just taking a break. Part of his journey was also learning to reach out to people and trust them. That's what he's doing now with his team.

    I think it's fine. That being said, the truth is what was presented left plenty of room for interpretation; it was so vague. If I'm angry about anything, it's that they were so ambiguous. It makes interpretations, whether they're more optimistic or pessimistic, equally valid, which means it's difficult to have anything but mixed or confused feelings about this. I would have preferred something clearly positive as opposed to this mixed bag.
    It was vague, but if Clark was just on paternity leave why give up the powers at all. Hang the suit in the closet and stay with the wife and kids but no need to reduce you abilities. In fact wouldn't having X-ray vision tp keep an eye on the kids and super-speed to get to them in a literal blink be helpful?

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    It was vague, but if Clark was just on paternity leave why give up the powers at all. Hang the suit in the closet and stay with the wife and kids but no need to reduce you abilities. In fact wouldn't having X-ray vision tp keep an eye on the kids and super-speed to get to them in a literal blink be helpful?
    People help their kids without superpowers all the time.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    It was vague, but if Clark was just on paternity leave why give up the powers at all. Hang the suit in the closet and stay with the wife and kids but no need to reduce you abilities. In fact wouldn't having X-ray vision tp keep an eye on the kids and super-speed to get to them in a literal blink be helpful?
    Because it's heartwrenching to hear the cries for help knowing you've opted to take a break. It's the same reason we turn our devices on silent when we need time off. I think it would be nice to age a bit too, so as to ease suspicions and not outlive your wife too much.
    Last edited by misslane; 12-14-2019 at 04:27 PM.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    I suppose I can take some consolation in the fact that the Smallville fan wiki doesn't appear to consider Earth 167 (we still haven't figured out why it was given that number) the "official" Smallville Earth. Anyway. My guess is that his Earth will be restored regardless since apparently Welling filmed at least one more scene. And one of the Earths they wiped out was the Titans show which I doubt they'll cancel for this. So I'm assuming all the Earths will be eventually restored. To me, him giving up powers seems a bit selfish. He may not always go out as Superman but it makes sense to at least keep them just in case. Earth 2 Superman went into semi-retirement but that was partly due to his powers fading as he got older. Supposedly Clark was still in his prime. The ten year timeline is going off the show itself. He started as Superman officially in 2011 when the show ended. Assuming that episode takes place in the modern day, then technically it would be less than a decade. And, yes, there are other heroes. I personally don't know that I would be able to just look the other way at a world in need and turn my back on it.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  5. #20
    Incredible Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
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    Can I buy Clark giving up his powers and hanging up his cape? Sure. Even Superman isn’t above making (bad or even selfish) emotional decisions under the right set of circumstances. But just like in Superman 2, the minute the earth is imperiled again, he’ll snap out of it and try to reverse it.
    For SMALLVILLE though, maybe that just never happens and earth stays relatively stable for the remainder of Clark and Lois’s lifespans. So I can accept their happy ending. I’m pretty sure the multiverse will be restored at the end of this.
    Last edited by OpaqueGiraffe17; 12-14-2019 at 05:57 PM.

  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Sure, why not?
    It doesn't go into the specifics of why he gave up his powers. But he's clearly leading a happy life.

  7. #22
    Incredible Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    I suppose I can take some consolation in the fact that the Smallville fan wiki doesn't appear to consider Earth 167 (we still haven't figured out why it was given that number) the "official" Smallville Earth. Anyway. My guess is that his Earth will be restored regardless since apparently Welling filmed at least one more scene. And one of the Earths they wiped out was the Titans show which I doubt they'll cancel for this. So I'm assuming all the Earths will be eventually restored. To me, him giving up powers seems a bit selfish. He may not always go out as Superman but it makes sense to at least keep them just in case. Earth 2 Superman went into semi-retirement but that was partly due to his powers fading as he got older. Supposedly Clark was still in his prime. The ten year timeline is going off the show itself. He started as Superman officially in 2011 when the show ended. Assuming that episode takes place in the modern day, then technically it would be less than a decade. And, yes, there are other heroes. I personally don't know that I would be able to just look the other way at a world in need and turn my back on it.
    Aren’t those run by fans? Everyone behind the scenes aren’t exactly being ambiguous about wanting these to be official continuations. I respect having a headcanon, but I don’t know about going out of your way trying to validate it with stuff like this.

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    Aren’t those run by fans? Everyone behind the scenes aren’t exactly being ambiguous about wanting these to be official continuations. I respect having a headcanon, but I don’t know about going out of your way trying to validate it with stuff like this.
    Like I said, I assume all the universes (or at least the major ones) will be restored eventually.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    I am a fan of "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow," but I don't want that to be the definitive ending for Superman in all continuities. Same can be said for Kingdom Come, which is obviously completely different but is equally satisfying.

    If there had to be a *definitive* ending for Superman, I prefer the idea that he keeps going indefinitely.

  10. #25
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    I see all the Earths (other than 1 and 38) being like Elseworlds, in the CW's COIE. Which is funny, because this crossover has been more of an Elseworlds than the previous which was called Elseworlds. We are not required to believe that these are the only Earths in the infinitude of universes that happen to have stories about characters we know from other TV shows or movies. They are just possible Earths. So there could be hundreds of Tom Welling universes, each with their own version of his Clark Kent. That's why I'm not butt hurt about what happened on Earth-167--or in the case of Kevin Conroy, what happened on Earth-99. If you like this story about a Welling Clark, if it works for you, then that's gravy--but if it doesn't, you don't have to take it for gospel.
    Justice for Flight PS752

  11. #26
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    If there had to be a *definitive* ending for Superman, I prefer the idea that he keeps going indefinitely.
    Agreed. I think Clark's "perfect" ending is that he doesn't actually end. If there's been a "definitive" ending in comics, I think it's Morrison's DC 1 Million golden Superman.

    I have no issue with Smallville Clark giving up the powers. Makes sense for that guy. I have no problem with stories that go off on tangents that I'd consider foul ball for a "definitive" approach, like Kingdom Come (where I enjoy the story but can only think of that Clark as "a" Superman, not "the" Superman). But for the end-all, be-all, "defines everything forever" ending? Superman doesn't end, he just moves on.
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  12. #27
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    It's funny one of the main complaints lex had for clark is that he didn't want it.

  13. #28

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    ... so were the "Smallville" comics "season 11" accepted as canon? lol.

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    ... so were the "Smallville" comics "season 11" accepted as canon? lol.
    As far as I can tell, there is no way of knowing for sure one way or the other. The events of the Season 11 comics occur roughly from 2012-2013 (the year after Clark's debut as Superman). One can tell its approximate duration based on Chloe experiencing the pregnancy and birth of her and Oliver's child within that time frame. Since none of the events of the comic were referenced or contradicted in the crossover, it's hard to say if they are canon. I know that Guggenheim, the showrunner, said he considered the comics canon, which may be as close as one gets to some clarity on this. Generally speaking, though, I think most consider them canon and did consider them canon prior to the crossover.

  15. #30
    Super Member GSman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    As far as I can tell, there is no way of knowing for sure one way or the other. The events of the Season 11 comics occur roughly from 2012-2013 (the year after Clark's debut as Superman). One can tell its approximate duration based on Chloe experiencing the pregnancy and birth of her and Oliver's child within that time frame. Since none of the events of the comic were referenced or contradicted in the crossover, it's hard to say if they are canon. I know that Guggenheim, the showrunner, said he considered the comics canon, which may be as close as one gets to some clarity on this. Generally speaking, though, I think most consider them canon and did consider them canon prior to the crossover.
    Guggenheim said the comics were canon to Smallville, as they should be, since it's a continuation, done by the people who wrote the show. Though they wouldn't really mention it, which is fine, since with the limited amount of dialogue Welling has, it was better spent on his talk with Cyer Lex than his previous adventures.

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