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  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Default Any characters not OK with the new set up?

    I have not been reading the X-books in while since it all just sounds like a big mess to me at the moment, but I do keep an eye on the new series and generally whats going on. My question is have there been any mutants shown that are not ok with this whole "we are all mutants so everything is forgiven" thing. I keep seeing team after team announced with almost every one of them having a villain as a team member. Has there been any characters just say no way we should be working with monsters like Sinister, Apocalypse Mystique, Sabertooth, and all the others? I just can't believe every character is ok with these monsters just walking around free. That was one of the big things that started to drive me off the x-books was the constant forgivness of villains no matter how evil and writers wanting to redeem all of them. Are there any real villains in the X-books anymore? It worked for Magneto sure, but there is a big diference between someone like Magneto and Apocalypse.

    To me it would only make sense for at least some of the mutants to say no way I am working with these monsters and walking away from happy happy friends land.

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    There has been some resistance but I have the opposite take that you do, to me that's one of the best parts of this status quo, that we treat mutants as just characters without making extreme "boxes" around them as Pure Hero and Absolute Monster. It's more of a sliding scale, and the "evil" characters still have enough substance that cooperation on common improvement of mutantdom is possible.

    Kwannon seems to have doubts about the status quo if you check the recently released Fallen Angels #4 preview. Wolverine has been lecturing Quire about needing to view humans with respect somewhat. Gambit distrusts Apocalypse in Excalibur. Storm still has beef with Emma Frost.

    Is it shocking and jarring in a lot of ways sure... does it require a lot better development/motivation/explanation? Definitely. But it's not nearly as simple the way you put it, at least not for me

    Also: Sabretooth got made a scapegoat and was exiled into the bowels of Krakoa (his crime was killing a few guards). There is a law the new mutant nation created of "Kill no man" so there's that for ya as well.

    And Moira/Xavier/Magneto have discussed part of the reasoning for including Mystique/Exodus/Sinister on their new Council is to keep watch on them.
    Forget the old ways - Krakoa is god.

    OBEY

  3. #3
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    The ultimate function of all the characters is to construct the story.I think the combination of all the mutants brings excitement and interest to the fans, and opens up more possibilities for future stories.These are more important than anything else.

  4. #4
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    The answer is no. We've seen almost no pushback from anyone. Some vague "I don't trust Apocalypse/Sinister/etc.", but no serious reaction to having them on the island or putting them in charge. Logan had one or two lines, but hasn't seriously gone against anything.

    It doesn't make the stories interesting or exciting for me. It makes the X-men into worse people by letting unrepentant monsters into their ranks and leadership because of some vague idea of mutant solidarity. I don't need my heroes to be saints, but when you start taking orders from complete monsters I stop wanting to see you succeed.

    I agree with you that its been a longstanding problem with the X-men that they work with the villains at the drop of a hat.

  5. #5
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    I've always wondered why many readers feel that X-Men can't team up with some former villains. Even if the villains are subject to coercive laws. Even if the x-men aren't working with the bad guys for evil purposes. Even the x-men made "no killing of humans" the supreme law. Even though the x-men provided significant medicine for humanity. Even though the x-men still want to protect the world. Even if they are united only to exist in the world.

    And I don't seem to see anyone accusing SHIELD of collaborating with hydra.

  6. #6
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    While I think you may be arguing in good faith, the assessment of the situation is vastly oversimplifying the situation that they’ve actually been put in. It’s been known for awhile now that Mutants operate under different circumstances than, say, Iron Man and Mandarin or Hulk and Leader. We’ve seen them united on the same front multiple times when the situation goes beyond the X-Men and extends to Mutants as a whole. Even Cyclops managed to bring them all under one roof for like eight months before TRO and the Terrigen Mists messed everything up.


    But even through that entire crisis event, Mutants put aside their moral differences in order to look for a cure. Not that any of this directly affects what happened in HOXPOX, but it sets a precedent that they are willing to unite if the cause is great enough to ignore ultimately trivial differences in ideology (no, this does not include Apocalypse and Selene). Mutants are all about ensuring their survival and Xavier/Moira/Magneto/Krakoa have provided a broad enough plan that everyone can begrudgingly get onboard. That doesn’t mean they all automatically trust each other as we see several titles specifically dealing with the complexities of having to work with the people you don’t and probably won’t ever trust. There have been some complaints from Mutants like Psylocke and Wolverine, who fed that Krakoa is making them soft and susceptible to attacks from hateful humans. Hence, end of X-Force #1.


  7. #7
    Fantastic Member DAHX's Avatar
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    Wolverine showed doubts about the villains on Krakoa:



    The main reason villains are also there it's because Krakoa is a sovereign mutant nation, so every mutant have a place there and get citizenship. Sabretooth's case is a good example, he committed some crime and they didn't let the human court judge him, they took him to Krakoa and they punished him themselves. The point is that mutants are the mutants' responsibility from now on, not the humans'. They're not going to let humans make decisions over mutants or treat them as subordinate to humans under human laws anymore, but their equals as a separate nation. The emphasis is on unity, mutants working together, building the nation together, but the x-men keep an eye on the villains too at the same time. Now villains got a chance to work with the x-men for the mutant cause, and be a part of something that is beneficial for all of them. They got amnesty for their former crimes, but if they don't play by the rules, they will get punished. It's not a complete forgiveness of villains, it's about new chances and integrating them. There is a law that applies for them too and it was said before that it wouldn't help the new nation if mutant villains were roaming around outside of Krakoa causing trouble for humans either. Yes, there are still real villains, they're coming from the humans who want to destroy Krakoa and don't want this mutant unity. It's bigger than X-Men and their villains, it's humans vs mutants on a whole new level.

  8. #8
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    Jubilee has shown some doubts regarding having Shogo on an island with people like Apocalypse. Though, her situation is unique in that she has a very human adopted son.

  9. #9
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Mutants villains run the gammut from misunderstood, redeemable and complete monsters. Complicated ones like Magneto or Mystique or Emma (for as much as I hate her) are one thing. Selene, Sinister and Apocalypse? Its their presence that keeps me from enjoying Krakoa or even taking it seriously. They're presence makes the entire thing feel doomed and like a bad idea on steroids. Logan's comment about it being a bad idea doesn't change the fact that he's now taking orders from these guys.

    I feel there's a difference between working with these guys because of some specific crisis out of necessity and forming a government with them in charge.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Mystique betrays everyone she ever came in contact with, except Irene. She needs to go in the Apocalypse / Selene camp. Lol

  11. #11
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    Morals are relative and combined with the greater good is why they're acting this way. The mutant collective decided human laws do not apply anymore towards themselves.

    Plus dying and being clones absolves mutants of their past human "crimes".

  12. #12
    Casual Comics Reader/Fan Londo Bellian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAHX View Post
    It's bigger than X-Men and their villains, it's humans vs mutants on a whole new level.
    With the potential for EXISTENTIAL "ONE SHALL STAND, ONE SHALL FALL" genocidal potential hanging over the Marvel Universe setting's collective head.

    It keeps getting hammered that less mutants than the fingers of one hand can exterminate mankind faster than a Thanos fingersnap.
    Genkai nante nai (No limits), Zettai nante nai (No absolutes)

    The Current Hill that I Risk Dying On: #KrakoaNEVERMYXMEN
    "I promise, I'll definitely save you. With my tenth and final life, I WILL PROTECT YOU, MUTANDOKA!" ~HoMoira Kinross Akemi

  13. #13
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    This entire premise seems to have REALLY gotten under the skin of some, and I say... GOOD!


  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    Mystique betrays everyone she ever came in contact with, except Irene. She needs to go in the Apocalypse / Selene camp. Lol
    Sh eis about to do it again LOL

    I find really unrealistic how everyone is ok to ork with villains in the name on the Krakoan nation.
    We only heard negative opinions from Logan and psylocke

  15. #15
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    Morals are relative and combined with the greater good is why they're acting this way. The mutant collective decided human laws do not apply anymore towards themselves.

    Plus dying and being clones absolves mutants of their past human "crimes".
    Dying and poping back up within a day makes 'absolving them of their crimes' dubious at best. And the mutant collective just deciding human laws and morals is pretty weak justification for breaking bread with genocidal mass murderers and serial killers. Reminds me of 'sovereign citizens' I have to deal with down at municipal court

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