Understanding the Motivations Behind KRAKOA, and the Dawn of X

[adamTPTK]

The more I think of Hickman's resurrection process, the more I like it. At first it seemed to fly in the face of the idea of a soul, or anima, as Hickman specifies. But if you think in terms of nondualism, that everything manifest or unmanifest is but a fraction of the totality that is Godhead, then the personalized notion of a soul is basically a misidentification of the Godhead as something special and unique. The individual soul is unique, like crystallized water(snowflakes), insofar as its 'shape', the memories and experiences and physical factors, which Hickman's process does account for. Cerebro is recording the shape(the data, and remember the Shi'Ar tech is in there, and all their tech is alive(Danger), and can store soul stuff(Jean Grey's holoempathic crystal Lilandra gave to her parents) of each soulflake, and the Five are replicating the idealized body, so when they are united, it very much is as much of you as you ever were, since the Godhead is still everpresent.

We have seen Charles and Jean share people's deaths, even try to hold their souls from going somewhere else for a while(Moira and Annie Richardson, for example). and other psychics like Shadow King and Emma hop into other bodies or exist as disincarnated psionic entities, only to come into body again later(such as the most recent Elizabeth Braddock model). We've seen various forms of afterlife and Astral Planes all throughout, and there was never a contradiction. I think Hickman's works too.

This... can work. I myself thought that the astral plane could be that point where matter and (let's call it) "aether" fuse and thus it will make sense for the resurrection process to not be just a random act of replication/cloning... if it would've been a part of it. My problem is that the process as it is seems "too cold" or too technical. There's no "aether" in the process. It's all data and raw material.

[Celestialbodies]

The more I think of Hickman's resurrection process, the more I like it. At first it seemed to fly in the face of the idea of a soul, or anima, as Hickman specifies. But if you think in terms of nondualism, that everything manifest or unmanifest is but a fraction of the totality that is Godhead, then the personalized notion of a soul is basically a misidentification of the Godhead as something special and unique. The individual soul is unique, like crystallized water(snowflakes), insofar as its 'shape', the memories and experiences and physical factors, which Hickman's process does account for. Cerebro is recording the shape(the data, and remember the Shi'Ar tech is in there, and all their tech is alive(Danger), and can store soul stuff(Jean Grey's holoempathic crystal Lilandra gave to her parents) of each soulflake, and the Five are replicating the idealized body, so when they are united, it very much is as much of you as you ever were, since the Godhead is still everpresent.

We have seen Charles and Jean share people's deaths, even try to hold their souls from going somewhere else for a while(Moira and Annie Richardson, for example). and other psychics like Shadow King and Emma hop into other bodies or exist as disincarnated psionic entities, only to come into body again later(such as the most recent Elizabeth Braddock model). We've seen various forms of afterlife and Astral Planes all throughout, and there was never a contradiction. I think Hickman's works too.

Add Psylocke to that list as well as young Jean they both used separate forces Soul/Psionic energy to recreate their bodies, minds, and potentially souls. And didn't Xavier do something similar during AXM with Fantomex's body.

Honestly, I thought Hickman based the whole Resurrection process on Jean Grey and the Phoenix Egg/Cocoon. Her's was a cosmic rebirth but involved the same ideas, a cycle through death, recreating her body, and returning her soul/mind.

[Havok83]

I hope they address how unethical it is to resurrect 16 million people without their consent.

I want them to address how unethical that Xavier has been keeping a copy of everyone's mind for decades. Talk about massive invasion of privacy. This goes beyond someone getting your internet search history. He has access to ALL of your thoughts that you've had and its backed up on a machine that any powerful telepath could potentially access. Like why wouldnt Sinister want to find a way to steal it? The fact that Cerebro even exists should scare people. Xavier is not a trustworthy person so people should be freaked out that he did all of this without consent

[Zelena]

I want them to address how unethical that Xavier has been keeping a copy of everyone's mind for decades. Talk about massive invasion of privacy. This goes beyond someone getting your internet search history. He has access to ALL of your thoughts that you've had and its backed up on a machine that any powerful telepath could potentially access. Like why wouldnt Sinister would to find a way to steal it? The fact that Cerebro even exists should scare people. Xavier is not a trustworthy person so people should be freaked out that he did all of this without consent

Psychics are unethical people by definition: there never was any "psychic code of ethics" and it depends on each psychic how much they restrain themselves and what they allow themselves to do.
Who is trustworthy and who isn't? I am always surprised how easily the other mutants trust them…

[Kisinith]

I want them to address how unethical that Xavier has been keeping a copy of everyone's mind for decades. Talk about massive invasion of privacy. This goes beyond someone getting your internet search history. He has access to ALL of your thoughts that you've had and its backed up on a machine that any powerful telepath could potentially access. Like why wouldnt Sinister would to find a way to steal it? The fact that Cerebro even exists should scare people. Xavier is not a trustworthy person so people should be freaked out that he did all of this without consent

I don't, I don't care. This one move helps to undo (real world) decades of unnecessary deconstruction, abysmal storytelling, pointless deaths, and untold misery (both on page and on the readership). It fixes all of the broken toys and put everything, every X character, back on the table. Hickman earned a whole lot of leeway with me with this even beyond the fact that I so far really like the direction things are going. Even if I end up disliking DoX I'll still be ok with it for that simple reason. I'm not at all concerned with ethics of someone who's powers, as Zelena points out, are entirely unethical to begin with.

[AbnormallyNormal]

I want them to address how unethical that Xavier has been keeping a copy of everyone's mind for decades. Talk about massive invasion of privacy. This goes beyond someone getting your internet search history. He has access to ALL of your thoughts that you've had and its backed up on a machine that any powerful telepath could potentially access. Like why wouldnt Sinister want to find a way to steal it? The fact that Cerebro even exists should scare people. Xavier is not a trustworthy person so people should be freaked out that he did all of this without consent

Yes

Psychics are unethical people by definition: there never was any "psychic code of ethics" and it depends on each psychic how much they restrain themselves and what they allow themselves to do.
Who is trustworthy and who isn't? I am always surprised how easily the other mutants trust them…

The idea is Xavier was always portrayed as this gentle hearted saintly mentor of mutants though... so that's why everyone was ok with his incredibly potentially invasive powerset.

Once it got expanded to more and more other mutants yeah the wheels began to fall off on that. And THIS version of Xavier.. hoo boy

[Havok83]

I don't, I don't care. This one move helps to undo (real world) decades of unnecessary deconstruction, abysmal storytelling, pointless deaths, and untold misery (both on page and on the readership). It fixes all of the broken toys and put everything, every X character, back on the table. Hickman earned a whole lot of leeway with me with this even beyond the fact that I so far really like the direction things are going. Even if I end up disliking DoX I'll still be ok with it for that simple reason. I'm not at all concerned with ethics of someone who's powers, as Zelena points out, are entirely unethical to begin with.

You dont care as a reader buying these books but within this universe it really makes ZERO sense why no one has expressed any outrage or negative feeling towards this.

[Kisinith]

You dont care as a reader buying these books but within this universe it really makes ZERO sense why no one has expressed any outrage or negative feeling towards this.

Sure there is, sugar overload. Or more specifically their overwhelming relief at not being an endangered species any more, the joy of returning loved ones, the security being offered as part of a sovereign nation, the personal security that effective immortality offers. The fact that in the MU not a whole lot of time has passed and most haven't had time to process through everything and may not have considered the ramifications yet. You see this in that Krakoa has been almost a perpetual party scene where the mutants spend most of their time simply celebrating not being dead anymore.

Also in a universe with so many powerful psychics, magicians, gods, aliens, demons, devils and flaming space chickens all of whom show up to Earth on a semi-regular basis (only occasionally blowing it up or setting it on fire) they may have just become somewhat blase to the whole concept. Conversely, the acceptance of psychic intrusion may also simply be part of the newly developing mutant culture and general acceptance of mutants for other mutants in Krakoa.

Also somewhat less tongue in cheek, the PoV characters, the 5, the quiet council, and the X-Men all know how cerebro and the whole resurrection process works. They all also have a pretty extensive history with Xavier, cerebro and psychics (and death and resurrection). Its debatable how much anyone else knows, the readers are aware because we saw Magneto explaining it to Polaris who didn't know, didn't understand. Its entirely possible that the vast majority of unnamed mutant citizens of Krakoa don't know much more than "we can raise the dead".

[Havok83]

Sure there is, sugar overload. Or more specifically their overwhelming relief at not being an endangered species any more, the joy of returning loved ones, the security being offered as part of a sovereign nation, the personal security that effective immortality offers. The fact that in the MU not a whole lot of time has passed and most haven't had time to process through everything and may not have considered the ramifications yet. You see this in that Krakoa has been almost a perpetual party scene where the mutants spend most of their time simply celebrating not being dead anymore.

Also in a universe with so many powerful psychics, magicians, gods, demons, devils and flaming space chickens all of whom show up to Earth on a semi-regular basis sometimes they may have just become somewhat blase to the whole concept. Conversly, the acceptance of psychic intrusion may be part of the general acceptance of mutants for other mutants in Krakoa.

Also somewhat less tongue in cheek, the PoV characters, the 5, the quiet council, and the X-Men all know how cerebro and the whole resurrection process works. They all also have a pretty extensive history with Xavier, Cerebro and psychics. Its debatable how much anyone else knows, the readers are aware because we saw Magneto explaining it to Polaris who didn't know, didn't understand. Its entirely possible that the vast majority of unnamed mutant citizens of Krakoa don't know much more than "we can raise the dead".

That makes Krakoa built on a lie which creates a new set of unethical issues. For people to not even question the resurrections and just accept them at face value seems problematic.

[AbnormallyNormal]

That makes Krakoa built on a lie which creates a new set of unethical issues. For people to not even question the resurrections and just accept them at face value seems problematic.

Which mutants should be the most questioning/curious/skeptical in your mind?

[Kisinith]

That makes Krakoa built on a lie which creates a new set of unethical issues. For people to not even question the resurrections and just accept them at face value seems problematic.

It is based on a lie, see everything connected to Moira. This, however not so much, its one possible conjecture and you're acting like it exists in a vacuum as all of my other points still apply.

Effective immortality, restoring lost loved ones and avoiding extinction are each individually just about the most powerful motivators to the human (or mutant) psyche. Any one of them would be powerful enough to override most criticisms. Put all three together and its not laughable that people wouldn't be opposed to it, it becomes almost laughable to assume that anyone would.

[Havok83]

Which mutants should be the most questioning/curious/skeptical in your mind?

I feel like the most obvious answers like Jean, Storm and Kurt are already involved in the resurrections. I think it would be a natural thing for most of the younger generation to question. Tons of dead mutants are being brought back and there are even a ceremony in place where the naked resurrectee must prove themself with a response. Its weird AF and it doesnt make sense for no one to question it, especially the New X-men kids whom have already shown to be defiant to authority and rebel against things they dont feel is right and are kept in the dark about. Armor is the perfect person bc it would fit in line with her characterization in Disasembled and even Age of X-man

[Londo Bellian]

That makes Krakoa built on a lie which creates a new set of unethical issues. For people to not even question the resurrections and just accept them at face value seems problematic.

"Nothing good is born from lies, and greatness in not what you think."

Which mutants should be the most questioning/curious/skeptical in your mind?

Kwannon, though more because she has little to no experience living with fellow mutants for extended periods of time.

Put all three together and its not laughable that people wouldn't be opposed to it, it becomes almost laughable to assume that anyone would.

What good is it to learn the truth? You want us to throw away our collective satisfaction in exchange for eternal suffering and despair!? We don't need it. We don't need any of it! We don't want a truth full of pain! We want a peaceful LIE!

[spirit2011]

This... can work. I myself thought that the astral plane could be that point where matter and (let's call it) "aether" fuse and thus it will make sense for the resurrection process to not be just a random act of replication/cloning... if it would've been a part of it. My problem is that the process as it is seems "too cold" or too technical. There's no "aether" in the process. It's all data and raw material.

It has nothing of spiritual. Xavier back all memories to a hard drive and they are stored. It's very industrial machine.

I feel like the most obvious answers like Jean, Storm and Kurt are already involved in the resurrections. I think it would be a natural thing for most of the younger generation to question. Tons of dead mutants are being brought back and there are even a ceremony in place where the naked resurrectee must prove themself with a response. Its weird AF and it doesnt make sense for no one to question it, especially the New X-men kids whom have already shown to be defiant to authority and rebel against things they dont feel is right and are kept in the dark about. Armor is the perfect person bc it would fit in line with her characterization in Disasembled and even Age of X-man

After experiencing a "one man paradise" mutants should be questioning more Xavier

Scott shouldn't dive head first so easily

[yogaflame]

This... can work. I myself thought that the astral plane could be that point where matter and (let's call it) "aether" fuse and thus it will make sense for the resurrection process to not be just a random act of replication/cloning... if it would've been a part of it. My problem is that the process as it is seems "too cold" or too technical. There's no "aether" in the process. It's all data and raw material.

That's my point, the aether is ever-present. Even if Xavier and the Five don't realize it or factor it into their calculations.