Understanding the Motivations Behind KRAKOA, and the Dawn of X

[Vegan Daddy]

But of course it's not as if thanks to Xavier people who have died or lost a relative in genosha can now experience things like falling in love, getting married, having children or making dreams come true. You know those things that make life worth correcting an injustice.

If it were I would be more angry at those responsible for genocide to the point of wanting revenge.

They can also experience suffering and death...again. The idea that you can ‘correct’ genocide is dumb. There also isn’t anyone to get revenge on.

[adamTPTK]

Uhh that's kinda easy Dude
They both will be the original
But seriously In a world where the son you had with your ex wife's clone is older than you but replaced by a younger alternative version liveon a sentient island with with a lady who is going to give birth to her baby daddys father...why stress over hypothetical paradoxes??
Whew! The X-Books you're reading seem rife with extravagant human genocide motif :/

The answer is, they both are just copies.
Time travel is also laughable when isn't moderated. That's what I say, things need to be streamlined, not get messed up further.
Human vs. mutant is a central theme of the X-comics. It doesn't mean it's right, it's just is.

[adamTPTK]

Has your knickers been in a twist about the fact that Xavier and Betsy haven’t been in there original bodies for years? Xavier was placed in a cloned body in the 80’s. Betsy is on her second replica body, in fact, and her fourth body in total.

Two wrongs and stuff... Betsy was resurrected with the body that isn't even hers. How bizarre was that?

[The Quiet Councilor]

Two wrongs and stuff... Betsy was resurrected with the body that isn't even hers. How bizarre was that?

My point is there is precedent for this, and I’ve never heard anyone suggest either of them aren’t themselves because of the new bodies. They have both been accepted as being themselves. Why is there suddenly a pseudo-philosophical debate?

[houndsofluv]

Just a reminder, in hopes that fans will allow all this to unfold further, and not be so quick to pass judgement prematurely. Beyond that, to remember also the more primal, visceral views of those like Wolverine, from the image & quote above.

thank you for this thread!! completely agree with what you're putting down and love the references you pulled out - i love to see people not slagging off krakoa

Which would mean that they also knew about Wanda's genocide and did nothing about it. That means Destiny and Mystique knew all along as well.

Hickman's story gives me the impression that Moira has dedicated her lives to making the necessary tweaks to ensure that mutants are not wiped out by humans. She was successful. She did see a future wears mutants outlive homo sapiens. They don't outlive homo novissima tho.

Moira was careful not to tweak too much. If she could avoid Genosha then why not go and tweak the conditioning that made Magneto who he is? Why not stop Jean from witnessing her friends death? Why not stop Ororo's parents from dying?

Moira's decisions have clear implications for her life and that connections she has with both Xavier and Magneto.

exactly. It would be impossible for her to rectify every single minute negative occurrence in mutant history - she knew what they were building towards, they being her charles/erik/poccy coalition, and if all went according to plan all that icky stuff like depowering and mass genocide would be effectively undone. for all she knew directly interfering against it would only lead to new, unforseen problems that she doesnt have the time to plan against.

They can also experience suffering and death...again. The idea that you can ‘correct’ genocide is dumb. There also isn’t anyone to get revenge on.

but death and suffering means less, or at least something altogether different, when there are protocols in place to bring any and everyone back. They just want to give everyone a chance to experience this quote-unquote mutant paradise, the ideal world they've constructed. I think they're banking on mutants having these vague feelings of anger that they can direct towards humans as "revenge", even if it isnt technically revenge for genosha etc. in specific theyre harnessing the feelings behind them to push the krakoan agenda

The answer is, they both are just copies.
Time travel is also laughable when isn't moderated. That's what I say, things need to be streamlined, not get messed up further.
Human vs. mutant is a central theme of the X-comics. It doesn't mean it's right, it's just is.

if both are copies, are they not both also the real deal?

[adamTPTK]

My point is there is precedent for this, and I’ve never heard anyone suggest either of them aren’t themselves because of the new bodies. They have both been accepted as being themselves. Why is there suddenly a pseudo-philosophical debate?

I don't speak for the hive so I wouldn't know. And one stupidity doesn't cancel other out. What's are you so overdefensive about?

[Omega Alpha]

if both are copies, are they not both also the real deal?

Yeah, this is a non-sensical view. By that way of thinking, everyone that teleported at least once is a copy and not the real deal anymore. That's specially silly in a world with magic, time-travel, people having children older than they are, etc.

[The Quiet Councilor]

I don't speak for the hive so I wouldn't know. And one stupidity doesn't cancel other out. What's are you so overdefensive about?

Who’s defensive? I’m asking a question about a reaction that, frankly, seems arbitrary and inconsistent. I’m hoping for a thoughtful response, and I’ve yet to receive it.

[adamTPTK]

if both are copies, are they not both also the real deal?

copy
[ kop-ee ]
noun, plural cop·ies, for 1, 2, 8, 10.
an imitation, reproduction, or transcript of an original:
"a copy of a famous painting."


I mean, I'm actually puzzled how this example gone over so many heads lol

[houndsofluv]

dude.....i know what a copy is thanks....how are they BOTH copies?

[adamTPTK]

Who’s defensive? I’m asking a question about a reaction that, frankly, seems arbitrary and inconsistent. I’m hoping for a thoughtful response, and I’ve yet to receive it.

Last I checked you emphasized on knickers more than on thoughts.

[Knives]

Yes, I too believe there will come a war for the right to exist between humans and mutants. But because Hickman did say the X-Men (and now by indelible extension all mutantkind) are winning and will not be destroyed ever again, perhaps the mutants will win the war this time around. And because it's been hammered to readers in the X-line that as long as a single non-mutant human lives in the universe then mutantdom will never be safe, so....*zap!* Sapiens deserve it, all of it, eh?

I don't know if the mutants will win or not and I won't say that wars are beautiful or fair things but one thing I know it wasn't the mutants that started it and I won't blame either of them for wanting to protect their people by any means necessary after almost wiped out 5 or 6 times.

They can also experience suffering and death...again. The idea that you can ‘correct’ genocide is dumb. There also isn’t anyone to get revenge on.

Of course Cassandra and the humans who created the killer machines she used are all innocent .

The mutant vaccine that the governments used or the zero tolerance operation that was authorized by the US government, M-Pox nobody is responsible for these events is all a big coincidence.

As it is comics I have no way of knowing but I wonder given human nature if it were possible to save the Jews killed by Hitler by bringing them back to life what would happen ?

[Zelena]

I don't know if the mutants will win or not and I won't say that wars are beautiful or fair things but one thing I know it wasn't the mutants that started it and I won't blame either of them for wanting to protect their people by any means necessary after almost wiped out 5 or 6 times.

If a terrorist wants to kill me, I don't care how he is justified to do so, neither how much he has suffered.

[The Quiet Councilor]

Last I checked you emphasized on knickers more than on thoughts.

Ah, yes, there’s the deflection. It says a lot about your a reasoning or lack thereof. Moving on.

[adamTPTK]

dude.....i know what a copy is thanks....how are they BOTH copies?

Think about it, the process of resurrection can be repeated infinitely. And there's no limit to how many cloned bodies there can be. Now, think about just two of them sitting there together. Same body down to molecule, some exact memories. How do you determine which one of the is the original?