Green Lantern on HBO Max

[j9ac9k]

-- I'd love a more complicated sci-fi adventure take on the GL mythology. Old blue guys in robes never got well developed and people either kept it as it, or wanted to ditch that old-fashioned notion, but taking the idea of the Guardians and updating it so a modern audience can buy in is the challenge, and I'd like to see that happen.
-- Personally, I'm not a huge fan of GLs in "cop procedurals in space." I always felt their scope should be much bigger and that there's local law enforcement for "crimes." Like how I wouldn't want to see the Enterprise going from planet to planet solving crimes .... Morrison had an interesting take when he had someone stealing planets, so for me it could work in that context.
-- I'd like to see (and this applies to comics as well) the GLs do more than create hard-light constructs. The rings should be capable of doing a lot of more interesting things. For any fiction, you'd have to create rules that an audience can grasp and of course you can't the ring a deus ex machina that just takes care of everything. (bat shark-repellent) That's always a challenge with GL, but I am hoping a tv show of this caliber can do it.

[j9ac9k]

Green Lantern is about an Earthman in Space. It's a reverse-Superman (an alien among Earthlings). For that you need a character who to some extent fits better or feels more at home in Space among the Lanterns than he maybe does among Earth. That's why John Stewart was the ideal Green Lantern. In the Justice League, a runnng thread with him was his sense that he was becoming his job, that he maybe felt more comfortable in space than in Earth, heck he even tried to get a transfer to another sector and leave Earth for a while.

So, if they were to make a "JLA" movie, you'd say it makes more sense for it to feature Hal since John belongs more in space?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

-- I'd love a more complicated sci-fi adventure take on the GL mythology. Old blue guys in robes never got well developed and people either kept it as it, or wanted to ditch that old-fashioned notion, but taking the idea of the Guardians and updating it so a modern audience can buy in is the challenge, and I'd like to see that happen.

My personal feeling is that the Green Lantern should be updated into something of a more hard-scrabble organization. Like they are still a relatively new force in the cosmos. i.e. about 4000 years old and their jurisdiction is small and they're trying to expand. They do this by a sense of soft and hard power, like say they facilitate intergalactic trade and other alliances. In Earth history, the Martians made a deal that's what made the Milky Way part of the Green Lantern's sector, and so Earth became part of their jurisdiction unbeknownst to them.

So that means that the Green Lanterns are constantly trying to prove that they are important, necessary and so on. That gives tension as to how GL can deal with threats in parts of the universe not under their justice and so on.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

So, if they were to make a "JLA" movie, you'd say it makes more sense for it to feature Hal since John belongs more in space?

It would be Justice League, since the A is well and truly passe at this point. Heck simply call it Justice League Unlimited or JLU.

The Justice League focus largely on cosmic threats to earth, so John Stewart would fit there better than Hal since in the JLU cartoon he largely served as the main guy in the cosmic stories (except for the Darkseid stuff which was Superman's thing). Like Despero was a GL villain there.

[SiegePerilous02]

The way to go is to center it around John Stewart and import everything from the Justice League cartoons into the movies.

Green Lantern is about an Earthman in Space. It's a reverse-Superman (an alien among Earthlings). For that you need a character who to some extent fits better or feels more at home in Space among the Lanterns than he maybe does among Earth. That's why John Stewart was the ideal Green Lantern. In the Justice League, a runnng thread with him was his sense that he was becoming his job, that he maybe felt more comfortable in space than in Earth, heck he even tried to get a transfer to another sector and leave Earth for a while.

Whereas Hal Jordan is basically too Earth-centric. You can see this in the 2011 movie where most of the action is set on Earth, and that's a terrible approach and a failure. Hal Jordan is a very dated character. Hal Jordan was never a very important character as people assume
http://www.comicscube.com/2011/03/wh...ortant-as.html

In general the Green Lantern movies need to be like James Gunn's Guardians of the Galaxy, it has to by outer space, for outer space, of outer space. John Stewart as a character fits that mould, his most famous relationships whether it's Katma Tui or Shayera Hol are with aliens. Sinestro is primarily a Green Lantern Corps villain and not a Hal Jordan villain, and Katma Tui comes from the same planet that Sinestro does so there's a personal connection you can work between Sinestro and Stewart, far more than with Jordan. The ultimate approach should be that Green Lantern should be the center of the cosmic side. I mean make the Rann-Thanawar war into a Green Lantern story, and that way you can do the John-Shayera romance. Nobody gives a damn about Katar Hol anyway. The Justice League cartoons made Despero into a GL-centric story. More can be done on that front.

The problem with DC since Dan Didio and Geoff Johns is this attempt to make the Silver Age the one true thing. That meant that Wally West was kneecapped in favor of Barry Allen (another dull character who got a perfect sendoff) over Mark Waid's objections. The Speed-Force and all the Flash-mythos was created for Wally but in adaptations was given to Barry which makes that on some level even more galling. Still Barry Allen has had success on that TV Show whereas Hal Jordan hasn't had any of that. Shayera Hol likewise as Hawkgirl broke out and became a big character but instead of making her into a major female superheroine or anti-heroine, they instead go to the well and give Hawkman endless second chances to the point that his continuity is unreadable. And again the more second chances people give to old white relics just creates a toxic culture of fan nostalgia that makes gatekeeping happen.

It was Didio and Johns that drove me to Marvel. They are the ones as much as Zack Snyder that cost DC it's own Shared Universe on the movies. And yet there's been no punishment, no consequences. It's ridiculous.

Hal isn't always Earth centric. In fact, currently he rarely is. For the Johns and current Morrison run (which is the only consistently good book DC is putting out at the moment for their main line), he spends most of his time in space. Plenty of space stories pre-COIE as well. In fact, him being bored with Earth and feeling more at home in space is a plot point. And no, those stories could not be told with any Earth GL (a cliche and tired argument), Morrison is very clearly building them specifically around Hal and his history.

Calling Sinestro a Green Lantern Corps villain and not a Hal villain specifically is an outright lie. Him sharing a planet with Katma-Tui also means nothing to John if it's never made it onto the page or screen before now. There is a reason John and Sinestro didn't exchange two words with each other in JL. Also, I think you're projecting a bit when you say nobody cares about Katar. You see a lot of John Stewart fans clamor for the Shayera romance because that is one of the main things he has going for him, but do you see the reverse as often? And we also have to factor in the fact that Hawkgirl fans may prefer Kendra to Shayera.

Hal originates in the Silver Age, but he is not only of that era. He made it through the Bronze age and into the modern age for a few years before getting Emerald Twilight'd, and he's been back longer than he was gone. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Captain Marvel, Spider-Man and Captain America are either as old or even older and none of them are considered relics, why should he be? Kyle could arguably be considered a relic from the 90s since his purpose has come and gone.

Linking to an article that is clearly coming from a place of bias as well isn't going to convince anyone here.

[Jokerz79]

My favorite GLs are Kyle and Alan and I like John more than Hal mostly due to the Justice League and JLU animated shows. But the argument Hal is a failure due to GL 2011 doesn't hold water one it was a bad movie no GL could had saved that thing. Also arguably the best Green Lantern materials put to film outside the already mentioned JL and JLU Shows are Green Lantern the Animated Series, Green Lantern First Flight, Green Lantern Emerald Knights, and Justice League New Frontier and all starred Hal.

[CliffHanger2]

Peter Parker as Spider-Man hadn't had a good movie since 2004 before the MCU. Guess that was proof they should use Miles instead of Peter... no wait, it isn't.

Well they did give Peter elements of Miles story.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Exactly. If the argument for John is diversity, fine that's a good thing. But the arguments being used are silly.

The film was terrible regardless. Ryan Reynolds was not similar to Hal whatsoever and it tried to be more of a comedy with shitty CGI. It also crammed Parrallax who effectively became a space cloud in with a weird rendition of Hector Hammond who hasn't been relevant in years. It would have failed under those pretenses no matter who the lead was.

John was in Justice League. That's used often as proof that John was a success. Justice League would have succeeded no matter who the GL was. In fact, I don't think anyone would make the same argument for Hawkgirl or Martian Manhunter to get a film over Hal or hell even Hawkman or Aquaman who were reserved in that show. And DC media made plenty of films set and inspired by the DCAU that featured Hal instead of John and they were perfectly well received and financially successful. So John wasn't the magic ingrediant making it work where Hal would have failed.

Hal's comics sales were bad and he got replanced. You could say this about every GL. Alan Scott got cancelled. Hal eventually started shifting between John and Guy, then got the book back and Kyle got it, then Kyle had a grace period and them his series started to stall out and become redundant. Fact is, if you ask someone who was the main GL in the most successful GL run, it was Hal Jordan and it's not even close. GL was a B/C tier level publication until Rebirth. After Rebirth it spawned multiple titles and became one of DC's juggernaut comic franchises and thats started with centering the story back on Hal. So if you want to say he wasn't successful in the comics, nobody was more successful than him so it's not really relevant (especially since he was in fact very successful and even before Rebirth was easily the longest running and most stable GL of the bunch).

So it's really just a lot of bad faith talking points to drag down Hal as a character to prop up John or whoever everyone else wants.

Fact is, all 4 GL's have their fans. Series is better with as many as you can put in.

[SiegePerilous02]

I saw way more people walking around with GL shirts during the Hal-lead Johns GL run than I ever have before or since.

They've all had their ups and downs, Hal included, but if we're looking at which one was the most successful in the comics for a period, it's Hal and it's not even close.

[WillieMorgan]

Ah, this old chestnut rolls around yet again. Another thread potentially hijacked.

I suspect the OP may be more of a Marvel fan that thought that he was asking a perfectly innocent question without realising how loaded it actually was. I apologise if that isn't the case though.

A TV show would actually be the best format for something like Green Lantern, given the franchise's complicated and heavily detailed mythology. One of the many, many issues with the 2011 film was it's attempt to clumsily cram so much of that mythology into a two hour movie. As far as tone goes, something similar to the GOTG movies would certainly benefit. When I saw the first one of those I remember thinking 'This is what the GL film should have been like'. There's so much scope for creativity in the Cosmic DCU.

As for the direction of the show, and which characters to feature, I'll be perfectly fine with it as long as it doesn't just pander to a certain fandom's perpetual peevishness and cherry picking of GL history.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Fact is, if you ask someone who was the main GL in the most successful GL run, it was Hal Jordan and it's not even close. GL was a B/C tier level publication until Rebirth. After Rebirth it spawned multiple titles and became one of DC's juggernaut comic franchises and thats started with centering the story back on Hal.

I saw way more people walking around with GL shirts during the Hal-lead Johns GL run than I ever have before or since.

Fact is that comics readers represent a very tiny audience, largely older and so on, especially in the modern era around the time of Rebirth and so on. That doesn't translate to any success in the mainstream. Whereas the JLU cartoon was seen across the world by a whole bunch of people who don't read comics and its DVD/BR still sells very high.

Far more people, vastly more people, know Green Lantern as John Stewart from the cartoons than will ever read any of Johns' books.

DC as a rule doesn't have any set continuity unlike Marvel. In the case of Marvel you could argue for all kinds of continuity-loyal reasons why stuff should be as it was in the Lee-Kirby-Ditko era whereas that's not the case with DC. The Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman today are not the characters that Siegel/Shuster, Marston, Finger/Kane worked on. That applies to Flash, Green Lantern and others and their respective creators. I mean the truth is while Superman will always be Clark Kent, Batman Bruce, and Wonder Woman Diana...there's absolutely no reason for the Flash and GL to always be Barry or Hal. They are expendable and replaceable.

DC have also historically imported stuff from adaptations directly into comics whether it's Kryptonite, Jimmy Olsen, Barbara Gordon and many other stuff. It's just that when it comes to John Stewart becoming GL and becoming successful, that's where this whole thing stops. And it's disgusting.

[j9ac9k]

My personal feeling is that the Green Lantern should be updated into something of a more hard-scrabble organization. Like they are still a relatively new force in the cosmos. i.e. about 4000 years old and their jurisdiction is small and they're trying to expand. They do this by a sense of soft and hard power, like say they facilitate intergalactic trade and other alliances. In Earth history, the Martians made a deal that's what made the Milky Way part of the Green Lantern's sector, and so Earth became part of their jurisdiction unbeknownst to them.

So that means that the Green Lanterns are constantly trying to prove that they are important, necessary and so on. That gives tension as to how GL can deal with threats in parts of the universe not under their justice and so on.

Sounds like the "L.E.G.I.O.N." Which was a really good book, especially when you had someone like Dox running things, doing all sorts of questionable **** to get his way. I can see how The GLC could be done well this way in a longform format like a tv show, as long as it doesn't get too bogged down with politics and treaties, etc.

[SiegePerilous02]

Fact is that comics readers represent a very tiny audience, largely older and so on, especially in the modern era around the time of Rebirth and so on. That doesn't translate to any success in the mainstream. Whereas the JLU cartoon was seen across the world by a whole bunch of people who don't read comics and its DVD/BR still sells very high.

Far more people, vastly more people, know Green Lantern as John Stewart from the cartoons than will ever read any of Johns' books.

DC as a rule doesn't have any set continuity unlike Marvel. In the case of Marvel you could argue for all kinds of continuity-loyal reasons why stuff should be as it was in the Lee-Kirby-Ditko era whereas that's not the case with DC. The Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman today are not the characters that Siegel/Shuster, Marston, Finger/Kane worked on. That applies to Flash, Green Lantern and others and their respective creators. I mean the truth is while Superman will always be Clark Kent, Batman Bruce, and Wonder Woman Diana...there's absolutely no reason for the Flash and GL to always be Barry or Hal. They are expendable and replaceable.

DC have also historically imported stuff from adaptations directly into comics whether it's Kryptonite, Jimmy Olsen, Barbara Gordon and many other stuff. It's just that when it comes to John Stewart becoming GL and becoming successful, that's where this whole thing stops. And it's disgusting.

JL/U isn't a GL only show though. Yeah John is there, but so are Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and a whole slew of other characters, so we have to factor in that a lot of those ratings and DVD/BR sales may have something to do with them. And all those other things you mentioned? Supporting characters and lore additions that were incorporated into a franchise with a clear lead (Superman and Batman). John found success in an ensemble show that wasn't even about his franchise. Not a direct comparison.

Yeah comics readers are a comparatively small audience. But Hal and Jessica especially are also still in other media (not just the crappy 2011 movie) that a lot of people watch, so while there are a lot of people for whom GL is just John, there are a lot of people for whom GL is Hal and/or Jess. All the social medial outrage over GL being "whitewashed" also indicates that the people who were outraged over John not being in the movie didn't know much about him. Clearly not his name, because his name is not Hal lol. So yeah Hal and Barry are more expendable than Clark, Bruce and Diana, but most characters are and they are not as replaceable as you seem to think.

Actually with Barry's success due to the live action TV show, it seems more and more that the Flash has to be him and Wally is more expendable in comparison. Yeah that may not seem fair to the comics readers who are fans of Wally, but like you say...wider audience who doesn't care as much.

[Frontier]

It is a true failure. Young Justice was also cancelled when GL did and guess which one made the comeback? YJ also had a crappy tie in video game.

Not from a critical perspective. The ratings and actual critical reaction to the cartoon (which starred Hal Jordan) was strong, but it got canned because they couldn't sell any toys.

YJ is a whole 'nother phenomenon by comparison.

Ironically the show ended right before the season where the creators were planning on introducing John Stewart.

I wish more people would acknowledge GL:TAS .

[Hybrid]

JL/U isn't a GL only show though. Yeah John is there, but so are Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and a whole slew of other characters, so we have to factor in that a lot of those ratings and DVD/BR sales may have something to do with them. And all those other things you mentioned? Supporting characters and lore additions that were incorporated into a franchise with a clear lead (Superman and Batman). John found success in an ensemble show that wasn't even about his franchise. Not a direct comparison.

Yeah comics readers are a comparatively small audience. But Hal and Jessica especially are also still in other media (not just the crappy 2011 movie) that a lot of people watch, so while there are a lot of people for whom GL is just John, there are a lot of people for whom GL is Hal and/or Jess. All the social medial outrage over GL being "whitewashed" also indicates that the people who were outraged over John not being in the movie didn't know much about him. Clearly not his name, because his name is not Hal lol. So yeah Hal and Barry are more expendable than Clark, Bruce and Diana, but most characters are and they are not as replaceable as you seem to think.

Actually with Barry's success due to the live action TV show, it seems more and more that the Flash has to be him and Wally is more expendable in comparison. Yeah that may not seem fair to the comics readers who are fans of Wally, but like you say...wider audience who doesn't care as much.

Exactly. Justice League had tons of other characters that weren't John, starting with the other members of the team, the story/lore aspects drew from a minimal amount of the GL mythos. Then in Justice League Unlimited, the team is a full-blown organization with even less focus on John specifically. He was a great character, but he was NOT the reason people were watching the show.

Also those sensationalist tabloids aren't a good source to say "Well, this PROVES John is better". They'll look for any excuse to get buzz, like crying racism over something they don't even know. It'll be like that when the MCU Fantastic Four debut and all are white, when they're that way in the comics. I'm surprise they even went there, come to think of it.