Green Lantern on HBO Max

[Jokerz79]

Not from a critical perspective. The ratings and actual critical reaction to the cartoon (which starred Hal Jordan) was strong, but it got canned because they couldn't sell any toys.

YJ is a whole 'nother phenomenon by comparison.

Ironically the show ended right before the season where the creators were planning on introducing John Stewart.

I wish more people would acknowledge GL:TAS .

GL: TAS was Fantastic!

[j9ac9k]

One thing I hope the GL show does is find a way to make a show set in space with a bunch of aliens acting as an intergalactic force for good actual wondrous and exciting idea! There have been so many scifi shows over the years, that it can quickly seem mundane - from the sets to how aliens look and act to the conflicts/challenges presented. I want a show to really spark people's imagination, present new ideas and have in general a fresh new take on the genre so that it's not "just another scifi show."

[Revolutionary_Jack]

JL/U isn't a GL only show though. Yeah John is there, but so are Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and a whole slew of other characters, so we have to factor in that a lot of those ratings and DVD/BR sales may have something to do with them.

John Stewart made more appearances on that cartoon than any character barring Superman. Certainly more than Batman, so he was a major part of why that show took off.

All the social medial outrage over GL being "whitewashed" also indicates that the people who were outraged over John not being in the movie didn't know much about him.

They did know him because to them he was Green Lantern. This quibbling is beside the point.

Actually with Barry's success due to the live action TV show, it seems more and more that the Flash has to be him and Wally is more expendable in comparison.

Unfortunately that seems to be the case. I think it's a shame but it's what it is. I still think Wally West makes a better Flash though and it's a pity that he got kneecapped so successfully. Still that hasn't happened with Hal Jordan yet, so hopefully there's still a way to course-correct though DC will be resistant to do that.

I was happy when the 2011 movie failed so badly that Hal Jordan wasn't even included in the Snyder JL movie or for that matter any Green Lantern among the roster.

Exactly. Justice League had tons of other characters that weren't John, starting with the other members of the team, the story/lore aspects drew from a minimal amount of the GL mythos.

John Stewart appeared more than any other League aside from Superman across the show.

Then in Justice League Unlimited, the team is a full-blown organization with even less focus on John specifically.

Stewart still got more focus and attention than for instance, Flash did in the JLU era (mostly due to Michael Rosenbaum's commitment to Smallville).

Stewart got major story arcs and was basically the protagonist of the finale of Season 3 (the two-part time travel episode that riffs on COIE and which amusingly enough does have a cameo appearance by Hal Jordan).

It'll be like that when the MCU Fantastic Four debut and all are white, when they're that way in the comics. I'm surprise they even went there, come to think of it.

That's a ridiculous comparison. The only successful media version of Green Lantern happens to be an African-American character. That's not the case by any measure with the Fantastic Four.

The reason people thought Green Lantern was black in the first movie is because John Stewart was that popular and beloved and for most people he was, and he remains, the one true Green Lantern.

[Frontier]

One thing I hope the GL show does is find a way to make a show set in space with a bunch of aliens acting as an intergalactic force for good actual wondrous and exciting idea! There have been so many scifi shows over the years, that it can quickly seem mundane - from the sets to how aliens look and act to the conflicts/challenges presented. I want a show to really spark people's imagination, present new ideas and have in general a fresh new take on the genre so that it's not "just another scifi show."

I'm looking forward to how they handle all the alien GL's. I hope they do right by my guys Kilowog and Salaak .

[SiegePerilous02]

John Stewart made more appearances on that cartoon than any character barring Superman. Certainly more than Batman, so he was a major part of why that show took off

Unless you ask every single person who has ever watched the show, we have no idea how much of a draw he was for everyone. Maybe Batman didn't have as much screen time, but Batman is Batman. I would imagine the chance to see Kevin Conroy's Batman again is a big enough reason to have people tune in.

They did know him because to them he was Green Lantern. This quibbling is beside the point.

They didn't know him well enough to know his actual name. It's basically using sensationalized tabloid media that doesn't deal with much knowledge or facts, so it's hard to take seriously.

I was happy when the 2011 movie failed so badly that Hal Jordan wasn't even included in the Snyder JL movie or for that matter any Green Lantern among the roster.

Sounds kind of petty to me.

That's a ridiculous comparison. The only successful media version of Green Lantern happens to be an African-American character. That's not the case by any measure with the Fantastic Four.

The reason people thought Green Lantern was black in the first movie is because John Stewart was that popular and beloved and for most people he was, and he remains, the one true Green Lantern.

"Only successful media version of GL" is hyperbole. From a critical and ratings perspective, the GL cartoon starring Hal was well received. And that was purely a GL show. And now Jess has made a fairly successful foray into other media. For a certain group of fans in a certain time over ten years ago John was the only GL, but other media and other fans have come along. Who still consume JL/U and get exposed to John, but it's not the only game in town. If we had a GL only DCAU cartoon with John as the only lead we'd have actual precedent, but we don't.

Anyway, this HBO show has the chance and the time to have those three, if not more, Earth GLs represented to satisfy as many fans as possible. Which is what they should do. Maybe they don't even need a singular lead at all, and it might be better if they don't.

[Hybrid]

He may have had a legit grievance if I said "Hal should be the only lead" or "Hal should be the lead and John should be his supporting black sidekick". I said neither one. What I said was, quoting from the OP:

Hal Jordan and John Stewart buddy cop, with the two playing off of each other, making them the ideal leads for the show.

Notice how I said "leads", plural.

I envision this as an ensemble piece. Hal/John as our main human POVs and surrogates in a largely alien cast as we explore the weird and wide universe.

[SiegePerilous02]

I think I would prefer Hal and Jess as partners. Jess is the ideal POV "rookie" cop with Hal as her more experienced mentor. But it could be Hal and John too
They are space cops. Cops have partners. It's pretty easy to have at least two main leads.

With GL having some Earth based lore, they could have parallel plots running. Have one of the GLs on Earth battling Hector Hammond, Dr. Polaris, Black Hand, etc. while the other is in space. And you could have them switch off too.

As for the cosmic threats, I'd like some variety and avoid the Rainbow Corps for a bit. Maybe have Sinestro and Star Sapphire, but build up to the wider Sinestro Corps over the course of a couple seasons. Otherwise, they could use Evil Star, the Manhunters, Myrwhydden, the Spider Guild, Bolphunga, the Empire of Tears and even the Countess in the interim.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

John Stewart made more appearances on that cartoon than any character barring Superman. Certainly more than Batman, so he was a major part of why that show took off.



They did know him because to them he was Green Lantern. This quibbling is beside the point.



Unfortunately that seems to be the case. I think it's a shame but it's what it is. I still think Wally West makes a better Flash though and it's a pity that he got kneecapped so successfully. Still that hasn't happened with Hal Jordan yet, so hopefully there's still a way to course-correct though DC will be resistant to do that.

I was happy when the 2011 movie failed so badly that Hal Jordan wasn't even included in the Snyder JL movie or for that matter any Green Lantern among the roster.



John Stewart appeared more than any other League aside from Superman across the show.



Stewart still got more focus and attention than for instance, Flash did in the JLU era (mostly due to Michael Rosenbaum's commitment to Smallville).

Stewart got major story arcs and was basically the protagonist of the finale of Season 3 (the two-part time travel episode that riffs on COIE and which amusingly enough does have a cameo appearance by Hal Jordan).



That's a ridiculous comparison. The only successful media version of Green Lantern happens to be an African-American character. That's not the case by any measure with the Fantastic Four.

The reason people thought Green Lantern was black in the first movie is because John Stewart was that popular and beloved and for most people he was, and he remains, the one true Green Lantern.

Making the most appearances and being important are two different things. The show was popular from the get go and nobody knew John Stewart. If you honestly think he was more important than Batman to that show, you are biased. Batman coming off BTAS gave that show more legitimacy than anything. Also John took a back seat when it went to Unlimited and the show was fine. And as I've said before, Hal got the role in most of the movies and those all did well. The idea that he was the reason the show was successful is just not realistic.

You could have put literally any GL in and it would have had the same effect. Hell they practically did because John Stewart's personality was nothing like his comic counterpart at the time and at any point in history prior. They gave him a totally different back story. He didn't have any of his comic book relationships. Really his design wasn't even the same as his comic counterpart. They more or less took a totally new new character and named him John Stewart.


And as many people said, plenty of Hal Jordan related material did well. GL TAS did well both critically and in the ratings. It was only cancelled because of Toy sales which was a long running problem Cartoon Network shows had at the time and it was well documented. People watched and liked the show. New Frontier was received and did exceptionally well. First Flight made a lot of money and got mostly good reviews. Pretty much most Justice League film they made (Crisis on Two Earths, Doom, Flashpoint, War, Throne of Atlantis) and they kept making them and all did financially well. So obviously taking Stewart out and replacing him with Hal didn't mean a whole lot.

[lemonpeace]

I'd prefer if Hal wasn't a lead role in any capacity (at the very least not from the on set) but a supporting or secondary role to one of the many of human Lanterns is fine. admittedly I'm not a fan of Hal but I'm not saying that because I prefer any particular Lantern over him (even tho I'm obviously a John guy), I just don't think Hal Jordan is a natural fit anymore for that position. the cocky "got where it counts" top gun type isn't exactly en vogue, his archetype has been done and sure we can update him but why? Hal has the lion share of adaptations and centeral roles, it just seems silly to continuously bill and build on Green Lanterns as an ensemble but constantly fall back on the same horse while the ensemble grows and more get neglected. if they were smart they'd just adapt Green Lanterns with Simon and Jess and go from there.

[Hybrid]

What do you mean?

I think everyone loves a badass who believes in himself and can get the job done when it matters most, and he works well as a foil to others.

[SiegePerilous02]

Hal's archetype isn't really any more outdated or in need of updating any more than anyone else's. He needs a certain balance to be written well, but the same can be said about any character.

And anyway, in his current book he's more of a down to Earth, reserved, confident masculine badass but not in a cocky braggart way. He reminds me a bit of Pitt's character in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, though obviously much less shady and extreme lol. And characters like that can be a breath of fresh air these days.

[Immortal Weapon]

What do you mean?

I think everyone loves a badass who believes in himself and can get the job done when it matters most, and he works well as a foil to others.

I find the top gun type of badass to be to be too self destructive for my personal liking and it needs a heavily dose of plot armor for it not to come across as too dumb to live.

[numberthirty]

I'd prefer if Hal wasn't a lead role in any capacity (at the very least not from the on set) but a supporting or secondary role to one of the many of human Lanterns is fine. admittedly I'm not a fan of Hal but I'm not saying that because I prefer any particular Lantern over him (even tho I'm obviously a John guy), I just don't think Hal Jordan is a natural fit anymore for that position. the cocky "got where it counts" top gun type isn't exactly en vogue, his archetype has been done and sure we can update him but why? Hal has the lion share of adaptations and centeral roles, it just seems silly to continuously bill and build on Green Lanterns as an ensemble but constantly fall back on the same horse while the ensemble grows and more get neglected. if they were smart they'd just adapt Green Lanterns with Simon and Jess and go from there.

What do you mean?

I think everyone loves a badass who believes in himself and can get the job done when it matters most, and he works well as a foil to others.

I find the top gun type of badass to be to be too self destructive for my personal liking and it needs a heavily dose of plot armor for it not to come across as too dumb to live.

It's also already been done about as well as it can be before now. The idea that the smartest or most interesting move would be to break that "Golden Oldie" out for a property where you could probably do just about anything you want is pretty "Iffy".

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I'd prefer if Hal wasn't a lead role in any capacity (at the very least not from the on set) but a supporting or secondary role to one of the many of human Lanterns is fine.

A cool thing would be, what if they decided to restructure the Corps and Lanterns could elect people to the Guardian council, and Hal Jordan becomes like Guardian-in-Chief, i.e. President of the GLC. That way, Hal Jordan becomes the Nick Fury of Space SHIELD, the totemic elder dude and the story follows John Stewart as the lead.

I just don't think Hal Jordan is a natural fit anymore for that position. the cocky "got where it counts" top gun type isn't exactly en vogue, his archetype has been done and sure we can update him but why?

l
Exactly. I mean everything about Hal Jordan is dated. What good is being a Top Gun pilot in an age of drones (which is the point of the new Top Gun movie in fact)? All that daring stuff about his fearlessness of breaking records and flying impossible and so on, none of that has the same meaning it did like say in the '50s, the era of Chuck Yeager and so on, which informed the original Lantern stories.

Whereas John Stewart is more timeless. He's an architect/marine, and you can move him back-and-forth in any period and update it. I mean refusing to make Stewart the GL in 2011 was just a stupid move. Obama was in the white-house, a fact which inspired the creation of Miles Morales...and meanwhile DC does nothing.

I think everyone loves a badass who believes in himself and can get the job done when it matters most, and he works well as a foil to others.

The problem is that Hal is just not interesting. I mean people have tried to make him so but he isn't. He's often dumb and stupid, and his womanizing looks pretty skeezy these days. There's the fact that he had a relationship with an underage girl Arisia (https://www.cbr.com/things-that-turn...an-and-arisia/). Most superheroes are essentially white male aryan fantasies but usually in the case of Superman and Batman there's some interesting psychological and identity issues on top of that. In the case of Hal Jordan, he's a white super-pilot hotshot before he got the ring. Then he becomes a hotshot in the Lantern corps, i.e. "Greatest Lantern" and so on. This guy continuously is on the up and up, and has far less internal conflict than Superman does. The 2011 movie suffers from this. In that Ryan Reynolds is super-awesome at everything and even if he is not down with the rules he's still super-cool, but then he joins the Lantern corps and it doesn't work. They try and make him into someone vulnerable to the Corps and it doesn't really work as an internal struggle.

A lot of people like to say the 2011 movie is bad without bothering to understand why it is so. The movie-makers were tasked with trying to sell Hal Jordan to a mainstream audience and make him relatable to people who are not by default fans of the comics. I personally think that they did make an attempt to do so, and put fingers on the problem and the issue is that Hal Jordan is a dated character. If they had chosen another GL, it would have been a different movie and provided him other options on how to introduce the story and mythos. If you had say Kyle Rayner (which would have been a better fit for Reynolds all things considered) they would have had less issues about making the character vulnerable and relatable. If they went with John Stewart, then they would have found something deeper and more interesting thematically.

And anyway, in his current book he's more of a down to Earth, reserved, confident masculine badass but not in a cocky braggart way. He reminds me a bit of Pitt's character in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, though obviously much less shady and extreme lol.

Has it occurred to you that Pitt's character being "shady and extreme" is in fact the whole point of the "down to Earth, reserved, confident masculine badass". A lot of people find that dated and dubious to begin with, and pretty unbelievable.

It's also already been done about as well as it can be before now. The idea that the smartest or most interesting move would be to break that "Golden Oldie" out for a property where you could probably do just about anything you want is pretty "Iffy".

Exactly. And go back to history, if they went with the "golden oldie" in the '50s we would just have Alan Scott as the GL rather than Jordan. So it's kind of hypocritical to insist that Hal Jordan be the center of mythos and ignore later contemporary trends because A) Jordan wasn't there first, B) Jordan was a contemporary creation of the '50s (A Right Stuff era pilot becoming a GL).

And again Hal Jordan was never a big popular character in the '50s and 60s. That whole Green Arrow-Green Lantern series, that only happened because Jordan's GL comics and magazine was underselling by then. So minor was Jordan that he didn't show up in COIE where everybody else showed up and Green Lanterns John Stewart and Guy Gardner showed up. Hal Jordan is the definition of "failing upwards".

[numberthirty]

One other slight aspect of that...

In a series that would seemingly be set in deep space, you would have so many alien possibilities that would have nothing to do with how the obvious "Go To" would work. It just seems odd to go right to the "Dictionary Definition Action Hero..."(honestly, I wouldn't even be in a hurry to use John or the other human Lanterns) when you have so many other options.