Green Lantern on HBO Max

[Revolutionary_Jack]

And he wouldn't have been brought back and at the forefront of the highest selling run the franchise had if he was generally unpopular and disliked.

Comics readership was higher (and younger) in the late 80s and early 90s then in the mid-oughts when Hal returned. By the time the latter happened comics had a readership that was older and so on. So the success of Johns' run doesn't prove that Hal is popular among a wide audience.

Yeah, there are plenty who dislike him but just because they are loud doesn't mean they are as numerous as you think.

How do you explain the fact that Hal Jordan didn't even appear in Crisis on Infinite Earths when almost every other hero appeared, when Alan Scott and John Stewart both appeared in that event? You look at Hal's publication history, and what you find is that he comes and goes and loses traction and rarely keeps it up.

http://www.comicscube.com/2011/03/wh...ortant-as.html

No editorial would allow a story like Emerald Twilight and Zero Hour happen to a character who was a sales hit.

Barry Allen dying in COIE was also driven by his general unpopularity.

Yeah no disputing he's nowhere near Ben Grimm level, and it's still not commented on all that much. But I definitely saw it mentioned before 2015.

And did you know this panel existed before now, and do you know for certain it's being used in the context you described above?

I haven't seen the panel but I have no doubt that it's just some general vague sentiment. I know for a fact that nobody mentioned Hal Jordan as Jewish before. It's a topic with a lot of discussion and scholarship and if Hal Jordan was ever coded as Jewish and alluded as such in any significant way it would have come up.
(https://www.cbr.com/first-jewish-superhero/)/

Kitty Pryde is the first openly Jewish superhero. While among characters coded as Jewish, Ben Grimm is the major one from the Silver Age.

For most of his publication history, Hal Jordan was coded as WASP, a Gary Cooper-type alpha male hero.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

Before entering the thread, I wondered why it was so big already. Now, I know.

Some thoughts on things raised in this thread:

The only GL I'm interested in is Hal Jordan. That was the GL I grew up with and still prefer it to be Hal and the alien GLs rather than Earth having at least 4 other GLs that I can think of (John, Guy, Simon, Jessica).

I thought the GL animated series was really good, actually.

The fact that it seems to be produced by Greg Berlanti, who not only produces the CW shows, but also wrote and produced the Ryan Reynolds GL movie makes me think that Warners didn't learn their lesson with him. I'm ok with his CW shows because there's more that I like about them than not like, but his agenda is always front-and-center on every show he's involved with, so I don't see GL being any different. I'm sure if Hal is in the show at all, he'll be the least competent GL compared to all the other Earth GLs.

That being said, I'm glad they're doing GL as a TV series rather than a movie series because there's just too much material to get into a movie comfortably and one installment every three years won't get us very far. 10-13 episodes per season gives a lot more breathing room and allows a mythology to be built up more quickly.

I just hope the Berlanti-isms are kept somewhat under control, but the extra freedom HBOMax undoubtedly brings might suggest just the opposite.

[Hybrid]

Before entering the thread, I wondered why it was so big already. Now, I know.

Some thoughts on things raised in this thread:

The only GL I'm interested in is Hal Jordan. That was the GL I grew up with and still prefer it to be Hal and the alien GLs rather than Earth having at least 4 other GLs that I can think of (John, Guy, Simon, Jessica).

I thought the GL animated series was really good, actually.

The fact that it seems to be produced by Greg Berlanti, who not only produces the CW shows, but also wrote and produced the Ryan Reynolds GL movie makes me think that Warners didn't learn their lesson with him. I'm ok with his CW shows because there's more that I like about them than not like, but his agenda is always front-and-center on every show he's involved with, so I don't see GL being any different. I'm sure if Hal is in the show at all, he'll be the least competent GL compared to all the other Earth GLs.

That being said, I'm glad they're doing GL as a TV series rather than a movie series because there's just too much material to get into a movie comfortably and one installment every three years won't get us very far. 10-13 episodes per season gives a lot more breathing room and allows a mythology to be built up more quickly.

I just hope the Berlanti-isms are kept somewhat under control, but the extra freedom HBOMax undoubtedly brings might suggest just the opposite.

Berlanti was also a producer on Titans and Doom Patrol. He's probably not going to be that involved creatively speaking so I'm not worried.

[WebLurker]

The only way to get Green Lantern right is to make John Stewart the main and only Green Lantern.

Really? The most boring Lantern of the bunch after Hal Jordan himself? If we needed only one, why not one of the interesting characters?

That said, I agree with the others that the series should be an actual team one with multiple GLs in the roster. More options for everything and everyone.

He was the only GL to crossover and make it big, which he did in the Justice League cartoon. Unfortunately, thanks to Geoff Johns and his largely (malign) influence on DC, that's not going to be allowed to happen.

From what I've seen, Jessica Cruz is catching up, if not surpassing Stewart, in terms of "making it big" outside of the comics and doing it with far less history and time to establish herself then he did (heck, she even replaced him in the Fatal Five movie ). Biased, since she is my most favorite GL character, to the extent that her not being around is kinda a dealbreaker for me, but still, Stewart hasn't exactly being doing a lot since the JL cartoon ended.

[j9ac9k]

I'm ok with his CW shows because there's more that I like about them than not like, but his agenda is always front-and-center on every show he's involved with, so I don't see GL being any different. I'm sure if Hal is in the show at all, he'll be the least competent GL compared to all the other Earth GLs.

Why don't you just say what you're thinking instead of beating around the bush?

[Hybrid]

He's saying he believes trendy politics are all too prominent in the CW shows, and I'm inclined to agree. I think the CW is basically kids' stuff and that's a major reason I do not want this tied to a mature and well-written HBO Max series.

[Beaddle]

Between Hal and Jon, I would prefer Jon to lead, I never really read any Green Lantern comics, my only exposure to the characters were the wonderful DC animations, watching those animations, I like Jon Stewart better. Hal gets on my nerves, Like Batman I find him irritating.



however I think it should be an ensemble. Call it Green Lantern Corps not the Green Lantern. Of all the comics TV shows, this is the one that has me hooked just because its on HBO.

[SiegePerilous02]

Comics readership was higher (and younger) in the late 80s and early 90s then in the mid-oughts when Hal returned. By the time the latter happened comics had a readership that was older and so on. So the success of Johns' run doesn't prove that Hal is popular among a wide audience.



How do you explain the fact that Hal Jordan didn't even appear in Crisis on Infinite Earths when almost every other hero appeared, when Alan Scott and John Stewart both appeared in that event? You look at Hal's publication history, and what you find is that he comes and goes and loses traction and rarely keeps it up.

http://www.comicscube.com/2011/03/wh...ortant-as.html

No editorial would allow a story like Emerald Twilight and Zero Hour happen to a character who was a sales hit.

Barry Allen dying in COIE was also driven by his general unpopularity.

Sounds like a lot of sour grapes here. i imagine if it was another GL in the lead during the Johns run, you wouldn't be saying any of this.

You act like comic book characters don't have ups and downs throughout their history. Yeah Hal and Barry weren't as popular at certain times, but that's not true for the entire stretch. Hell, people stopped caring about the X-Men until a few months ago and they're generally a bigger property than the GLs.

I haven't seen the panel but I have no doubt that it's just some general vague sentiment. I know for a fact that nobody mentioned Hal Jordan as Jewish before. It's a topic with a lot of discussion and scholarship and if Hal Jordan was ever coded as Jewish and alluded as such in any significant way it would have come up.
(https://www.cbr.com/first-jewish-superhero/)/

No you don't. Because Hal was discussed as Jewish at least on here and on sites like Tumblr before the Tom King comic. Obviously it isn't used that much in comics history and he's nowhere near the level of Kitty or Ben Grimm, nobody is saying that.
But you and others tend to dismiss Hal without understanding his character, so I'm not inclined to take any of this as 100% gospel. We've already had some hyperbolic statements thrown out about him in here that don't hold up to scrutiny.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Sounds like a lot of sour grapes here. i imagine if it was another GL in the lead during the Johns run, you wouldn't be saying any of this.

Doubt that Geoff Johns would write extensively on GL if he didn't have access to Hal Jordan.

Dwayne McDuffie who did write comics with John Stewart kept experiencing torrents of complaints from GL fans for using John Stewart and so on, much of which racially motivated. And it played a factor in him souring over superhero comics.

You act like comic book characters don't have ups and downs throughout their history.

You act like all ups and downs are the same or equivalent. Green Lantern and Flash have been as successful as X-Men to start with.

Hell, people stopped caring about the X-Men until a few months ago and they're generally a bigger property than the GLs.

In the case of the X-Men the problem was that the stories were fenced-in editorially and forcefully stuck in a loop as a resulted of the rights of the characters being divided between rival studios and Marvel saw fit to kneecap the X-Men in favor of properties whose rights they entirely owned. The minute that situation stopped, the people came back in droves.

No you don't. Because Hal was discussed as Jewish at least on here and on sites like Tumblr before the Tom King comic.

The fact is among scholars of comics, many of them being you know Jewish themselves, Jordan was considered quite goy. And Jewish scholars and others would see this as a kind of forced diversity to allow WASP characters to co-opt claims for diversity without having to make any real meaningful change.

Obviously it isn't used that much in comics history and he's nowhere near the level of Kitty or Ben Grimm, nobody is saying that.

If we can make fine distinctions like that, then let's accept that the Hal Jordan of the 50s (when the character debuted), of the 70s, 80s and even Johns' Rebirth era wasn't intended to be, or coded to be, Jewish not by writers nor most readers. And as such it's right for readers to see him as largely WASP especially since its dubious if this new Hal is in continuity anymore.

[thwhtGuardian]

Side stepping everything before this, the recent book Green Lantern: Far Sector by N.K. Jemisin is the only GL comic to date that I actually really loved, so if there's a GL show I want it to feature Jo Mullein and be scripted by Jemisin.

[SiegePerilous02]

Doubt that Geoff Johns would write extensively on GL if he didn't have access to Hal Jordan.

Well too bad, because he did.
But any denying of its success always comes across as sour grapes because it always comes from other GL fans with an ax to grind.

And you stated earlier in this thread things like Hal never having success in other media and that John was the only one. Forgive me, but it's hard to take any of those statements seriously when:
A. The GL cartoon did well critically and in ratings and its cancellation due to outside factors is well documented. it was enjoyed by Hal Jordan fans in a way the movie was not.
B. The ratings and continued DVD/BR sales for JLU can't reliably be attributed only to John considering it's an ensemble show that features DCAU Batman.
C. The JL and GL DTVs featuring Hal still do pretty well
D. Jess is doing fairly well and is poised to catch up with both of them with much less history behind her.

You act like all ups and downs are the same or equivalent. Green Lantern and Flash have been as successful as X-Men to start with.

In the case of the X-Men the problem was that the stories were fenced-in editorially and forcefully stuck in a loop as a resulted of the rights of the characters being divided between rival studios and Marvel saw fit to kneecap the X-Men in favor of properties whose rights they entirely owned. The minute that situation stopped, the people came back in droves.

Of course they are not always the same or equivalent. No two situations are exactly alike, but ups and downs are a fact of life for all of these characters. After all at various points, Superman, Wonder Woman and even Batman had been on the verge of cancellation. You can't really hold up Hal's various down swings as a sign that he never had any upswings or that the upswings need to be undermined because you don't like him.

Funny, once Geoff Johns brought Hal back and editorial allowed him to pursue his story direction, lapsed fans and new fans came in in droves.

If we can make fine distinctions like that, then let's accept that the Hal Jordan of the 50s (when the character debuted), of the 70s, 80s and even Johns' Rebirth era wasn't intended to be, or coded to be, Jewish not by writers nor most readers. And as such it's right for readers to see him as largely WASP especially since its dubious if this new Hal is in continuity anymore.

Fine, we'll drop the Jewish thing. I largely agree with you, I mostly think you're downplaying how much of it was present before 2015, even if not by much.

[Immortal Weapon]

I cast doubt on the GL animated movies well. We would have gotten more than two if that was the case. Only first flight was about Hal. Emerald Knights was a collection of stories starring different lanterns.

[Hybrid]

Is there anything about the series you guys want to discuss besides this back-and-forth Hal v John: Dawn of Cringe bickering that's hijacked the thread?

Because there's a lot more to it than just this.

[Anthony W]

I was kind of excited for this show but then I heard Berlanti's name.

[SiegePerilous02]

Is there anything about the series you guys want to discuss besides this back-and-forth Hal v John: Dawn of Cringe bickering that's hijacked the thread?

Because there's a lot more to it than just this.

You're right. Sorry for my part in it, I will drop it on my end. With the space a tv series provides and a premise involving space cops that allows room for more than one lead, there is honestly the potential to get as many Earth GLs in this as possible anyway.

I wouldn't mind if the series was more episodic and like the Mandalorian or like the original Tales of the Green Lantern Corps comics. Satisfying one and dones with rotating characters. We could even go whole stretches of episodes, if not an entire season, without an Earth GL in sight