Doomsday Clock conclusion

[Commissioner Wayne]

So barring some delay catastrophe that would be reeaally bad for DC at this point, Doomsday Clock #12 is to be released this Wednesday. My question is, where will this fit into continuity? If at all? It appears the ongoing delays have caused the regular titles to continue on with no regard for the events of this series. Superman is currently revealing his secret identity, Batman isn’t being hounded by a public who has turned on him, there has been zero mention of Mime and Marionette in the proper DC Universe, etc. Will the series ever catch up with the current DCU events or will this all have been treated as an Elseworlds type tale?

[king81992]

Doomsday Clock's role in the DCU is still up in the air and it may not even be relevant anymore. From the beginning it seemed like the people running DC has no idea what they wanted Doomsday Clock to be. First it was marketed as a way to bring back the JSA and fix continuity, then it turned into Dr.Manhattan messing with the DC universe and Bosnia heading for Dr.Manhattan vs Superman.

[Restingvoice]

We've been discussing how much clout Geoff Johns still has on DC and the answer is... not much? But Bendis and Snyder said they're still following up on Doomsday Clock so there's still some influence? The impression I got is not as much as it was going to be initially, maybe just one or two plot elements?

[Jackalope89]

Doomsday Clock's role in the DCU is still up in the air and it may not even be relevant anymore. From the beginning it seemed like the people running DC has no idea what they wanted Doomsday Clock to be. First it was marketed as a way to bring back the JSA and fix continuity, then it turned into Dr.Manhattan messing with the DC universe and Bosnia heading for Dr.Manhattan vs Superman.

I'm pretty sure there was a plan for it going forward.

Then Geoff Johns lost his power in the comics division and Rebirth basically ended.

[BatmanJones]

Dec. 18 is a really big week for DC and that makes me wonder if Doomsday Clock might have a bigger impact on continuity than the last few months have led us all to believe.

Last Doomsday Clock
Last issue of King's Batman
Last issue of JL: Doom War
Last issue of first arc of Batman/Superman
A seemingly important issue of Flash Forward
First issue of Hell Arisen

I might be leaving something out.

With all those books hitting on the same day it's hard not to believe they'll have something to do with one another, and it will be disappointing if they don't.

My enthusiasm for Doomsday Clock was through the roof before the delays and before the preemptive JSA/Legion appearances in (what I regard to be) subpar stories. And it would be a real drag to have waited more than an extra year for the payoff only to find it's entirely self-contained.

But what once seemed like a very good followup to the original Watchmen REALLY suffers by comparison to the astoundingly good HBO series. Mime and Marionette are good characters but they're nothing compared to Looking Glass, Lady Trieu, and especially Sister Night. And what Johns has done with classic Watchmen characters feels pretty darn plain compared to what the TV series has done in the same arenas.

Still, I'm hoping for great things this Wednesday.

[BatmanJones]

It also feels to me like DC continuity has been out-of-order over the last 1-2 years by design. There are so many contradictions I have to believe there's some sort of plan behind it all. It would be a very nice surprise if Doomsday Clock turned out to be part of the answer to that, especially after we've been led to believe that it won't have much to do with the wider DCU at all.

[Mr.B]

Doomsday clock metaverse might set up the next universe. But current stories will still play out.

[CaptCleghorn]

Dec. 18 is a really big week for DC and that makes me wonder if Doomsday Clock might have a bigger impact on continuity than the last few months have led us all to believe.

Last Doomsday Clock
Last issue of King's Batman
Last issue of JL: Doom War
Last issue of first arc of Batman/Superman
A seemingly important issue of Flash Forward
First issue of Hell Arisen

I might be leaving something out.

With all those books hitting on the same day it's hard not to believe they'll have something to do with one another, and it will be disappointing if they don't.

My enthusiasm for Doomsday Clock was through the roof before the delays and before the preemptive JSA/Legion appearances in (what I regard to be) subpar stories. And it would be a real drag to have waited more than an extra year for the payoff only to find it's entirely self-contained.

But what once seemed like a very good followup to the original Watchmen REALLY suffers by comparison to the astoundingly good HBO series. Mime and Marionette are good characters but they're nothing compared to Looking Glass, Lady Trieu, and especially Sister Night. And what Johns has done with classic Watchmen characters feels pretty darn plain compared to what the TV series has done in the same arenas.

Still, I'm hoping for great things this Wednesday.

Hell Arisen seems like a cop-out to a long Justice/Doom War. At some point, one hopes DC is going to get around to tying up whatever they have going on. While we were all let down by the preponderance of "Red Sky" Crisis tie-ins back in 1985, this is a case where there are numerous series and double digit issue stretches supposedly tying in to this story.

Instead of thinking DClock's been postponed because of editorial interference (more minor than most believed), I've shifted to thinking the ending of HBO's season of Watchmen has something to do with it. But that's a conspiracy theory as I wait for a comic book. That sentence does put it into perspective, doesn't it?

[joebleau]

Johns lost power when Bendis sign for DC. He had to rewrite the Legion out of DClock because of this.
what did we get ?
one serie delayed beyond common sense
and one shitty LSH serie

[Waterfall]

1- JSA will be re-established (this is teased too much at this point)
2- The new timeline will be explained.

This was the initial set up so...

[king of hybrids]

So barring some delay catastrophe that would be reeaally bad for DC at this point, Doomsday Clock #12 is to be released this Wednesday. My question is, where will this fit into continuity? If at all? It appears the ongoing delays have caused the regular titles to continue on with no regard for the events of this series. Superman is currently revealing his secret identity, Batman isn’t being hounded by a public who has turned on him, there has been zero mention of Mime and Marionette in the proper DC Universe, etc. Will the series ever catch up with the current DCU events or will this all have been treated as an Elseworlds type tale?

I’m going to wager that it amounts to nothing due to DC moving on from Rebirth and the HBO show beyond maybe some nod to the set-up for the HBO series and maybe Reggie sticking around on Earth-Prime as Rorschach (mostly because of the Kingdom Come cameo)

The series just fell apart due to office politics, Johns’ ambition exceeding his self-preservation and the gradual increase in the delays in his projects

[Dreaded Porcupine]

I just want the JSA back and Bendis nowhere near it.

[Digifiend]

It also feels to me like DC continuity has been out-of-order over the last 1-2 years by design. There are so many contradictions I have to believe there's some sort of plan behind it all. It would be a very nice surprise if Doomsday Clock turned out to be part of the answer to that, especially after we've been led to believe that it won't have much to do with the wider DCU at all.

You're right about the contradictions.

• Batgirl and the Birds of Prey's Rebirth one-shot actually said the team had previously disbanded when Barbara got the use of her legs back - this actually retconned the New 52 series out of continuity!
• In Detective Comics, Tim Drake met his future self, who mentioned Conner. Present Tim didn't know who he was. Later, in Young Justice, he saw Zatanna, who fully restored his pre-Flashpoint memories. Also in 'Tec, Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown found out that they used to be Batgirl (and in Steph's case, Robin as well). They didn't remember this until then.
• Donna Troy received a new origin in a Rebirth Titans/Justice League crossover (she was now created from clay, which used to be Diana's origin). However, Diana's backstory had already been retconned so that she'd never been back to Paradise Island since she first left for Man's World, thus making that new origin impossible. The Deathbringer Infected one-shot last month revealed that all of Donna's contradictory origins are back in play. Clearly this needs resolving.
• Superman Reborn almost completely erased New 52 Superman. Anything New 52 Lois Lane was in will have been affected as well.... including Superwoman #1, where she died. Superwoman eventually ended up cancelled, but Lana Lang's superhero origin no longer happened, and thus Reborn probably should've ended it there and then. Instead it lasted another nine months and did end with her depowered. That series has apparently now been retconned away, as it's not been mentioned since it ended. Reborn also showed that Conner never existed, retconning away New 52 Superboy (the intent at the time likely being to get rid of him because Jon was now Superboy, but then Bendis came along).
• Justice League actually had a contradiction mid-arc. In one issue, Cyborg said he was a founder (his origin was told in the first New 52 arc), but the following issue had him say it was founded 15 years ago rather than five, obviously NOT making him a founder. No Justice, the next arc by a new creative team, revealed that Martian Manhunter was a founder, which matches pre-Crisis continuity.
• New 52 Teen Titans was meant to be the first ever team by that name. By the DC You period, the original Fab Five team seemed to be back in continuity, along with Nightwing and Starfire's relationship. In Justice League Odyssey, Starfire and Cyborg - complete strangers in New 52 - called each other old friends, effectively confirming New Teen Titans was back in canon. When Impulse came back, he brought back the continuity of the original Young Justice and the 2003 Teen Titans with him (Cassie Sandsmark's origin has been changed, so somehow her two versions seem to have merged as well, she wasn't being used in anything at the time most of the changes started happening). YJ also explained that Conner had escaped the Flashpoint changes to the timeline by being in Gemworld.
• Batgirl and Nightwing were both 21 in New 52. Recent issues have said that Babs is in her "late twenties" and Dick lost "almost two decades" of memories, meaning they've been suddenly aged up by seven years or so (Dick's origin was changed from age 16 to 13 as well), likely at the time when Dick was shot and Babs changed her costume.

[Wally West]

Johns lost power when Bendis sign for DC. He had to rewrite the Legion out of DClock because of this.
what did we get ?
one serie delayed beyond common sense
and one shitty LSH serie

He didn’t rewrite the legion. If you re read the early issues of Doomsday Clock Saturn Girl even says “she won’t be around for much longer” when talking to Rorschach II

Seems like the plan was always to keep classic Saturn girl around until the relaunch was ready (which at the time was probably Hickman’s pitch)

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Honestly i see it as an elseworlds or a standalone thing. Its better than worrying where it lines up in the chronology.

Doomsday clock was pretty good considering it had to be DC x Watchmen. I'm looking forward to how it ends this week.