Joker changed everything...

[Jokerr]

It is always funny when people like to bring up how much a movie they liked made to prove that it is great while at the same time will dismiss the money aspect if its a movie they hated. Joker is amazing because it made a billion dollars. Venom is trash no matter how much money it made.

I agree. It's kind of stupid when people do that. I literally never bring up a movies gross as an argument for it's quality.

[The Darknight Detective]

It is always funny when people like to bring up how much a movie they liked made to prove that it is great while at the same time will dismiss the money aspect if its a movie they hated. Joker is amazing because it made a billion dollars. Venom is trash no matter how much money it made.

Yeah, currently, it's surreal reading posts by those people who hate the new Star Wars flick. TROS is making oodles of dough, yet you would think it was bombing big time.

[The Darknight Detective]

I agree. It's kind of stupid when people do that. I literally never bring up a movies gross as an argument for it's quality.

I also have a problem with people who post RT scores as if they are carved in stone in perpetuity. There are so many now-considered-to-be classic films that wouldn't have been able to pass that test had Rotten Tomatoes been around years ago.

[Jokerr]

Yeah, currently, it's surreal reading posts by those people who hate the new Star Wars flick. TROS is making oodles of dough, yet you would think it was bombing big time.

Wait, so you like the new star wars movie? Why?

[The Darknight Detective]

Wait, so you like the new star wars movie? Why?

I haven't seen the film yet. My point was, regardless of the quality of the film, it's impossible to state it has done poorly at the box office.

[Vakanai]

I am happy for that.

But I even with that probably I will not see the next batman movie.. I don´t like the new batman.

How do you know that you don't like the new Batman when we've seen nothing of it yet?

[Jim Kelly]

I also have a problem with people who post RT scores as if they are carved in stone in perpetuity. There are so many now-considered-to-be classic films that wouldn't have been able to pass that test had Rotten Tomatoes been around years ago.

I used to watch Siskel & Ebert religiously back in the day, but it's astounding how many great movies they gave thumbs down to. I never felt that you had to agree with either of them (although Gene seemed to have tastes closer to my own). Part of the fun was seeing them disagree and argue about movies--yet always being friends and respecting each other.

[Ulysses]

These guys agree that Joker is a pivot point.

[Osiris-Rex]

I used to watch Siskel & Ebert religiously back in the day, but it's astounding how many great movies they gave thumbs down to. I never felt that you had to agree with either of them (although Gene seemed to have tastes closer to my own). Part of the fun was seeing them disagree and argue about movies--yet always being friends and respecting each other.

I was an Ebert man myself. When he approved of a movie it was generally one I liked too. I feel Roger would have given Joker a thumbs up and Gene a thumbs down. Joker just doesn't seem like the kind of movie Gene would have liked.

[The Darknight Detective]

I was an Ebert man myself. When he approved of a movie it was generally one I liked too. I feel Roger would have given Joker a thumbs up and Gene a thumbs down. Joker just doesn't seem like the kind of movie Gene would have liked.

Yeah, I agreed with Ebert more myself, since he was more willing to like particular genres (horror/sci-fi/fantasy) that Siskel was lukewarm about at best. I do agree with Jim's point about how many films they gave thumbs down to that are now thumbs up for the vast majority of movie fans, though.

[WebLurker]

I believe that after the astronomic success of Joker, a dark, adult and low budget movie, the super-hero genre will change forever. I think that after this movies we will get different takes on less known characters with a more adult, and a more "cinephile" take. The Joker movie was very inspired in Scorsese, now imagine for example a Question movie with a Hitchcock "taste", or a Deathstroke movie with Tarantino traces, imagine less known characters and villains getting low budget movies but with great quality. Deadman, Riddler, Two-Face, Lex Luthor can be getting movies with more authorial takes.

It's far from the first well-received R-rated comic book movie.

[The Darknight Detective]

It's far from the first well-received R-rated comic book movie.

Besides the fact that none of those other films were in the same league with Joker at the box office, which one of them was nominated for best picture, director, and actor? Joker has a fine shot at all three, judging by what it has already done at the Golden Globes with a win for Phoenix. It really stands out among the crowd.

[j9ac9k]

I haven't read through this thread, so forgive if this has been said, but I don't think "Joker" is a paradigm shift. If anything it will have repercussions that ripple out, but as with any ripple, it gets weaker as the goes along. Like any seminal piece of art, this will certainly open doors for more things like it by people looking to make Joker money, but not everyone will be able to make a movie that resonates in the same way. Look at all the Tarantino copies, or all the deconstructed comics that came out after "Watchmen" and "Dark Knight." There was so much subpar stuff cranked out to try to cash in.

The Marvel films aren't successful because they realized people like super-heroes - you need the right film and the right filmmakers - that's why Green Lantern failed. (amongst others) Maybe we'll get a few good super-hero movies out of it in the same vein, but we'll likely get a bunch of bad ones, then they'll stop trying until a good filmmaker with a real vision makes another one that's actually good.

[Pinsir]

Not really, there isn't anything Joker did that The Dark Knight Trilogy didn't do. Those films made over a billion dollars without China too, they had a darker tone, grounded tone and they adopted a more cinematic approach to their film making. This is why Zach Snyder was chosen to do MoS.

[Ulysses]

I think the perspective needs to be expanded. Joker is not a turning point in the superhero genre. I think it’s a milestone moment for the culture war as fought in movies. The only blockbuster movie that explored themes like this that I can think is Dark Knight Rises. Granted, I don’t watch that many movies. Could be wrong.