Would anyone like to superman in his original/first costume again?

[SuperCrab]

Actually, in some ways, I think the previous Superman who New52 Superman is most similar to is the 1938 Superman. A social crusading man of action who stands with the poor, shows a bit more aggression, and is intentionally a bit more intimidating at times. Issue #1 of the New52 iteration of either Action Comics or Superman showed Superman taking a corrupt rich guy and dangling him out a window by his legs.

[SuperCrab]

Anyway, the original costume seems fine as a short-term gimmick if today's Superman wants to go with a different look for a while. I am not lobbying for it, but it wouldn't bother me. I do think eventually they'd have to return to some version of the "S" logo that's more familiar the readers of the past 50 years or so, though.

The question becomes whether there would be more value creatively in saving the old logo for a story that somehow involves the Superman from that era, or from an alternate universe, interacting with today's (or tomorrow's) Superman. If you have modern Superman throw on the costume for a while, then do a story where a different Superman wears it and interacts with modern Superman, it could confuse some readers who wonder if he's been split in two or is having a metaphysical fight with himself ala that movie fight in the junkyard. If you haven't used it in a long time, readers would instantly get that it's not the same Superman they read about in the last month's comic and that the other one is.

As an aside, I would still like to see a R-Rated 1950s Superman monthly. Make it a cross between Mad Men and classic Superman. Bring back the fedora, phone booth, and corny Superman slogans, but mix them into a 1950s setting where Perry is constantly surrounded by a cloud of cigar smoke and curses like a sailor (Without having them replaced with random symbols), Lois and Kat have steamy affairs with men, and everyone drinks at work. Clark and Jimmy go down to the bar and chase women, etc.. Like, it's both a return to a more classic Superman, but also a more mature title that shows an adult take on the 1950s and a big time newspaper in, essentially, New York (Though it would still be called Metropolis- Metropolis has always to some degree been a stand-in for NYC, as has Gotham. I always thought it was a little weird that DC Comics essentially has two New York City stand-ins, but it's fine. ). Even though I don't think in comics history, Superman was still wearing the uniform in the original post by the 1950s, it would be a good fit for my hypothetical out of continuity series in the 50s, different enough that everyone would know which comic they are picking up from the cover.

My first choice for an ongoing with an different Superman is still the Superman of Earth 52 (aka the New52 Superman), though, of course.

[Celgress]

OP Question -

No, I would not.

[manwhohaseverything]

OP Question -

No, I would not.

ok,you have a reaason for feeling that way?

[Robanker]

I don't think the first shield is as good because it's just a badge whereas what it's evolved into is a bit more steeped in his mythology. It's a piece of his home and he wears it proudly. He's American, he has our values but he's also am immigrant and damn proud of it. I think that's way too valuable to revert to the classic shield.

I don't think the gladiator boots work for him because gladiators or circus strongmen aren't our reference point for strength anymore. There's no real reason to go back narratively and I just think the usual boots look better.

I think elements that can work are the black backdrop on the S, especially if it's done in mourning. Perhaps when Pa dies again, he takes the black backdrop and mentions it's a tradition on Krypton to fill the back of the house crest when a family member dies or something. Tie it into lore.

I'm all for making Clark a bit squinty again too. Ed McGuinness adopted that affectation and it would be neat if that was as idiosyncratic as his spitcurl.

Basically Fleischer was on to something and if we were going back, that model is what I'd draw from.

[manwhohaseverything]

I don't think the first shield is as good because it's just a badge whereas what it's evolved into is a bit more steeped in his mythology. It's a piece of his home and he wears it proudly. He's American, he has our values but he's also am immigrant and damn proud of it. I think that's way too valuable to revert to the classic shield.

I don't think the gladiator boots work for him because gladiators or circus strongmen aren't our reference point for strength anymore. There's no real reason to go back narratively and I just think the usual boots look better.

I think elements that can work are the black backdrop on the S, especially if it's done in mourning. Perhaps when Pa dies again, he takes the black backdrop and mentions it's a tradition on Krypton to fill the back of the house crest when a family member dies or something. Tie it into lore.

I'm all for making Clark a bit squinty again too. Ed McGuinness adopted that affectation and it would be neat if that was as idiosyncratic as his spitcurl.

Basically Fleischer was on to something and if we were going back, that model is what I'd draw from.

Sure, What it evolved into is convoluted and too self indulgent as well other than the things you mentioned . As i said, its a product of the corporate machine. You know, nightwing and his costume still draws heavily from the circus acrobats and so does nightcrawler's. I find Superman having that kind of down to earth simplicity far more appealing.

Superman's fight for truth and justice should'nt be connected to his lineage. He fights cause it's his world as well and he can't help, but help.So, the symbol being kryptonian royal knight's emblem or symbol of hope just makes it seem like it's his birthright to do as he pleases, break our laws and be a vigilante...etc. It is just a bad look for the culture. That is the precise reason they took boyscout and messiah route later on. They made him into christ, moses, arthur.. Etc type figure and his fight some kind of messianic destiny. It made the whole superman concept unrelatable/boring for many. It's also a lie.the character is and forever will be just a vigilante. The character himself wouldn't condone his actions or anyone emulating him. The character does take up the costume because he comes to realisation that evil triumphs when good men, especially those with capability don't do anything due to some selfish code, rule.. Etc. You know, when he realises that structures have become shackles. It should seen as a guy's desperate attempt at dealing with injustice that surrounds him.Clark's world, even its mistakes should be preserved and viewed as something positive. Not some vigilante's license to do whatever.

Precrisis and even dcau did it best. Clark collects bit and pieces of his world in his journey. Learns new things about himself. Creates a place for strays and last of their kind in his citadel or fortress or whatever you want to call it. For me, clark's main responsibility would be placing this into the hands of people that are altruistic. so that they can share it with the world in a way that doesn't cause people to grow prideful, greedy or reckless. I see the fortress/citadel being the true inheritor of krypton that leads the world into a new tomorrow . Clark will be just the guy that assembles the knowledge and culture. Its his way of redemption for violence he had to part take as the 'bully' on your corner. It would be his real tribute for the parents that decided to take a chance on a dangerous alien child and the parents that gave him a second chance that isn't tainted in anyway .
To QUOTE lobo "i guess that boy is just a sucker for hard luck cases"

Important part at timestamp around 3:30.

[Celgress]

ok,you have a reaason for feeling that way?

I don't like the design. IMO, it isn't visually dynamic enough. There is too much muted yellow which is a weak color choice.

[Robanker]

For what it's worth, manwhohaseverything, I don't see the shield as a birthright or having some symbolic importance more than representing his heritage. It's a coat of arms for his house and home; it's Clark wearing his Kryptonian heritage with as much pride as he does his Earth values. That's more important to me than any meaning it's gained since, be it Hope^tm or Kryptonian nobility. It's just affirmation that yes, he's an immigrant and an American and damned proud of it, which I feel an adult Kal/Clark should be.

[manwhohaseverything]

For what it's worth, manwhohaseverything, I don't see the shield as a birthright or having some symbolic importance more than representing his heritage. It's a coat of arms for his house and home; it's Clark wearing his Kryptonian heritage with as much pride as he does his Earth values. That's more important to me than any meaning it's gained since, be it Hope^tm or Kryptonian nobility. It's just affirmation that yes, he's an immigrant and an American and damned proud of it, which I feel an adult Kal/Clark should be.

Coat of arms is worn largely by knights,if i am not wrong.Thats were the king arthur comparison comes from.So that just furthers my point.Being vigilante is not something to be proud of.Clark being a vigilante should never be connected with his birth world.he wears the suit to help his adopted world and fixing his adopted worlds problem which in no way is connected to krypton.if the problems he deals with are just zod,brainiac,doomsday ..etc who are Kryptonian, then the connection makes sense.Otherwise, linking his blatant vigilantism to krypton would be bad.fortress/citadel should be the legacy of krypton,Not clark as a vigilante.

[manwhohaseverything]

I don't like the design. IMO, it isn't visually dynamic enough. There is too much muted yellow which is a weak color choice.

Muted yellow?it's the same yellow as he uses regularly. As for being dynamic, it is as dynamic as his other suits are for me.

[Robanker]

Coat of arms is worn largely by knights,if i am not wrong.Thats were the king arthur comparison comes from.So that just furthers my point.Being vigilante is not something to be proud of.Clark being a vigilante should never be connected with his birth world.he wears the suit to help his adopted world and fixing his adopted worlds problem which in no way is connected to krypton.if the problems he deals with are just zod,brainiac,doomsday ..etc who are Kryptonian, then the connection makes sense.Otherwise, linking his blatant vigilantism to krypton would be bad.fortress/citadel should be the legacy of krypton,Not clark as a vigilante.

A lot of people still wear their family coat of arms as a mark of pride. It's not just valor, it's their culture. Their heritage. It's no different than a lot of people hanging up multiple flags outside their home to denote where their family comes from.

And yes, for someone like Clark, being a vigilante is something to be proud of. He's objectively helping the downtrodden and disenfranchised and he was built on the belief that if something is wrong, good people must step up even if others tell them not to. That goes back to Action Comics #1. He was a bully, but he was on your side, so he was on the up 'n' up as far as the public are concerned. To be honest, the DCU is predicated on the actual need and deputizing of vigilantes. Nevertheless, I think we're getting away from the topic at hand.

He's not linking the two. It's just that when he's Superman, Kal can be open about being an alien as opposed to Clark, so when he doesn't have to hide he's absolutely going to fly both flags, so to speak. He's a Kryptonian American. He's proud of it. More than the classic shield (which itself looked like a police badge to some effect, which actually clashes with his status as a vigilante), I think something a bit more original that harkins to his alien nature (which in recent years does get dialed back so Clark Kent can be seen as the dominant persona) is important to emphasize. Superman isn't just Kal or Clark, he's both, and I prefer the current shield for that reason; it's Kryptonian. Be it a coat of arms, a family crest, a monogram, Hope or a cool party favor Lara liked, it's a piece of his home planet he can wear on his chest with pride. It's an icon, much like a flag, religious accessory or cultural item one can adorn to denote something they find important about themselves. That speaks a lot more to his duality than the classic shield. That's why I prefer it. Don't read any more into what the S shield actually is. I actually am a bit done with it meaning "hope" because it's just so on the nose and I'd prefer that if the DCU saw it as meaning that, perhaps it's because Clark gave it that meaning as opposed to inheriting that as some birthright. I'm with you there.

If you disagree, I respect your opinion, but I think that Fleischer's Superman is the retro model to follow. The original look should mostly be a fun throwback at most. That said, I don't think the original look is bad by any stretch. I just prefer the classic, Fleischer or Reborn looks much more and for reasons I feel I've adequately highlighted.

[manwhohaseverything]

A lot of people still wear their family coat of arms as a mark of pride. It's not just valor, it's their culture. Their heritage. It's no different than a lot of people hanging up multiple flags outside their home to denote where their family comes from.

And yes, for someone like Clark, being a vigilante is something to be proud of. He's objectively helping the downtrodden and disenfranchised and he was built on the belief that if something is wrong, good people must step up even if others tell them not to. That goes back to Action Comics #1. He was a bully, but he was on your side, so he was on the up 'n' up as far as the public are concerned. To be honest, the DCU is predicated on the actual need and deputizing of vigilantes. Nevertheless, I think we're getting away from the topic at hand.

He's not linking the two. It's just that when he's Superman, Kal can be open about being an alien as opposed to Clark, so when he doesn't have to hide he's absolutely going to fly both flags, so to speak. He's a Kryptonian American. He's proud of it. More than the classic shield (which itself looked like a police badge to some effect, which actually clashes with his status as a vigilante), I think something a bit more original that harkins to his alien nature (which in recent years does get dialed back so Clark Kent can be seen as the dominant persona) is important to emphasize. Superman isn't just Kal or Clark, he's both, and I prefer the current shield for that reason; it's Kryptonian. Be it a coat of arms, a family crest, a monogram, Hope or a cool party favor Lara liked, it's a piece of his home planet he can wear on his chest with pride. It's an icon, much like a flag, religious accessory or cultural item one can adorn to denote something they find important about themselves. That speaks a lot more to his duality than the classic shield. That's why I prefer it. Don't read any more into what the S shield actually is. I actually am a bit done with it meaning "hope" because it's just so on the nose and I'd prefer that if the DCU saw it as meaning that, perhaps it's because Clark gave it that meaning as opposed to inheriting that as some birthright. I'm with you there.

If you disagree, I respect your opinion, but I think that Fleischer's Superman is the retro model to follow. The original look should mostly be a fun throwback at most. That said, I don't think the original look is bad by any stretch. I just prefer the classic, Fleischer or Reborn looks much more and for reasons I feel I've adequately highlighted.

Dude,i know what you mean.but,if i am going out throwing wife beaters through a wall.I am not going to wear something that would connect to my people.it's simple logic.

I know and understand,i myself wear a thread around my body always, that has a meaning and significance .but that doesn't mean,if i am going to do something that is morally grey.i am going to use it as a symbol.it would make my entire clan look bad.i am not going put the flag of my country for doing things that should be morally repremented. Same logic applies here.clark is a vigilante by choice.if he uses his family crest or coat of arms for his actions.he is just dishonorable and quiet frankly a jackass.

[Robanker]

Well I would absolutely be proud to throw some wifebeater through a wall, so I wouldn't think twice about it. Clark is defending a battered woman and stopping an abusive husband. I imagine both the Kents and Els would be proud their son is doing that. I know I would be. I wouldn't tolerate that sort of hogwash and I'd be glad my kid didn't either. Is violence the best solution? No, of course not, but I'm glad someone took action to stop abuse in said scenario. Superman is about finding a better way, but these are superhero comics, it usually comes after some punching in some fashion. He's not a total pacifist, certainly not in the Golden Age.

I don't think we're going to agree on this, so I'll respectfully disagree and bow out before we further derail the conversation from costumes.

[manwhohaseverything]

Well I would absolutely be proud to throw some wifebeater through a wall, so I wouldn't think twice about it. Clark is defending a battered woman and stopping an abusive husband. I imagine both the Kents and Els would be proud their son is doing that. I know I would be. I wouldn't tolerate that sort of hogwash and I'd be glad my kid didn't either. Is violence the best solution? No, of course not, but I'm glad someone took action to stop abuse in said scenario. Superman is about finding a better way, but these are superhero comics, it usually comes after some punching in some fashion. He's not a total pacifist, certainly not in the Golden Age.

I don't think we're going to agree on this, so I'll respectfully disagree and bow out before we further derail the conversation from costumes.

Clark has never lived in a lawless city, just a corrupt one. So, there is still hope and better ways. I can sympathise with him and his reaction .But, that will never be something to be proud of.if this sort of behaviour is condoned and made the norm. It will be anarchy at best, at worst Its making a case for social darwinism. Think about it, clarks sets the rules cause he is the fittest.what would happen if another guy comes in more powerful sets a different rule like say throwing the wife through the wall instead? Bullying your bully is a grey area, where strength is always the deciding factor not ideals. Clark lives in that area.it isn't something to be proud of. If this is the kind of legacy krypton leaves behind, they are nothing but violent brutes who think might makes right. That shouldn't be how it is.krypton's legacy should be the ideals, not Clark's power.
Anyways, thank you for having the discussion with me.