Nightwing and Jobs

[AmiMizuno]

There seems to be a debate on this. Should he get his money with a normal job or something else? I mean if Nightwing is a stage for his indepence why should he want to ask Bruce for money?

[gregpersons]

There's obviously a lot of different ways to play this angle, considering how many different jobs Grayson's held over the years.

I do think "Dick's relationship with money" should be foregrounded in a way it's never really been with the character. I always point back to "Robin Hood" being part of the original inspiration for Robin (both meta-textually and in-universe), and the opportunity it creates — the idea that Dick hates "capitalism" with the same vigor that Bruce hates "crime." The tension between Dick & Bruce then becomes more fundamental to their POVs. Neither is entirely right or wrong, and both are justified. It's a compromise for Dick's morals to work with a billionaire, but when he discovers Bruce is the exceptionally rare "good billionaire," Dick realizes Bruce's resources give him the ability to fight the system that killed his parents and ruined his life. After all, it wasn't a random mugging that killed the Graysons — it was mob extortion; the strong preying on the weak. The darkest manifestation of the violence that capitalistic pursuit can create.

With that in mind, there's actually a real opportunity for my ideal scenario to happen with the current status quo. Here's the pitch:

—Dick moves back into Wayne Manor, reluctantly, mirroring the current economic conditions for many Gen Z/millennials. He's had a lot of jobs, started a lot of careers, but none of them have exactly worked out.

—Dick takes a leadership position within Wayne Enterprises with a special emphasis on the charitable Wayne Foundation. At this day job, Dick is not well respected. He's young and relatively inexperienced. He clearly got this job because he's Bruce Wayne's former ward. Further tension comes from the fact that Dick is responsible for allocating the funding for the secret Batman projects, and he's got to cleverly hide what he's really doing, even as people within might become suspicious. This makes Dick directly responsible for the "Robin Hood" aspect of the Wayne wealth... he is literally stealing from the rich to give to the poor.

—I'd revive and expand (and rename) the "Victims Inc" idea — tying it to Dick's social work during Seeley's Rebirth run — and this is basically Dick's responsibility. He is overseeing this. Secretly, the "Victims Inc" fund is also where the budget for "Batman Inc" is hidden... thus creating an ongoing "budget problem" for Nightwing, and tension with Batman — it would be Dick who has to tell him "No. We don't have the budget to make another secret Batmobile at the moment. Not while money is tied up creating the new low-income housing project in the Palisades." This limitation forces Batman to not have every single advantage whenever he wants it.

—Dick Grayson would naturally travel for work (insisting on taking commercial not private flights), helping to build houses in war-torn regions etc, which also allows Nightwing to be the international crimefighter for which he's already so well-suited, while still having his homebase be in Gotham.



Bottom line — however it's done, I think Nightwing makes a lot of sense as a "champion of the working-class" type of hero. Aside from his relationship with Bruce, he's never known financial stability in his life. But because he has such a good and extensive relationship with Bruce, Dick is in the prime position to wield this new money in the most aggressively compassionate way possible.

[AmiMizuno]

I'm not saying it should be part of a story rather it should be at least explain in a few sentences. I feel that due to what he has seen througtout his life, maybe him doing defense classes.

[Godlike13]

Professional gambler. Make his own hours, speaks to the character as a daredevil, and ripe with story potential. There is nothing more boring then seeing them try to give Dick some conventional job. Bus boy, bartender, Gymnastic teacher, personal finesse instructor, taxi diver. I hate them all.

[Restingvoice]

Haly's Circus owner and the manager is my favorite because it allows him to be close to his origin that uniquely his, travel everywhere with the Circus meaning there's going to be varied setting, a wild variety of supporting cast, enough time to excuse himself to do hero stuff, and appears kept together as opposed to the constant "young adult figuring out his life" that DC wants to put him.

[Badou]

Haly's Circus owner and the manager is my favorite because it allows him to be close to his origin that uniquely his, travel everywhere with the Circus meaning there's going to be varied setting, a wild variety of supporting cast, enough time to excuse himself to do hero stuff, and appears kept together as opposed to the constant "young adult figuring out his life" that DC wants to put him.

I feel like the circus setting works best as a place Dick can occasionally return to when he needs to get away from his current problems and recharge himself. Like the Kent farm for Superman. When they try and make it his job and setting it changes that to be a place full of drama and hardship for him, which ruins what I like about the circus. Him becoming the owner and having to manage all the people and costs makes it feel like a headache for him that he wouldn't enjoy.

[Restingvoice]

I feel like the circus setting works best as a place Dick can occasionally return to when he needs to get away from his current problems and recharge himself. Like the Kent farm for Superman. When they try and make it his job and setting it changes that to be a place full of drama and hardship for him, which ruins what I like about the circus. Him becoming the owner and having to manage all the people and costs makes it feel like a headache for him that he wouldn't enjoy.

I can see that, but I like that drama though. The circus is so interesting because of how colorful everyone is and I want to see their problems and interaction. The drama doesn't have to involve Dick personally but something that he can help occasionally.

So not a manager, since if that happens, he has to be involved, but something close enough. Not as far away as Smallville.

Is there a way for him to be close to the Circus but not get too involved? Something where he can wake up to the sounds and setting of the Circus, maybe help around feeding the animals or cleaning the tents, before going off somewhere there's trouble, and back again in the night to gather around the fireplace?

Maybe have the Circus at the beginning of a story arc, leave and travel during the course of the case, and then return at the end of the story arc so they can share and talk?

Yeah, I think I can do with that.

Still hasn't answered the job question, but right now I have no idea. I have to imagine where Dick will be first if Didio isn't barricading him.

[gregpersons]

I can see that, but I like that drama though. The circus is so interesting because of how colorful everyone is and I want to see their problems and interaction. The drama doesn't have to involve Dick personally but something that he can help occasionally.

So not a manager, since if that happens, he has to be involved, but something close enough. Not as far away as Smallville.

Is there a way for him to be close to the Circus but not get too involved? Something where he can wake up to the sounds and setting of the Circus, maybe help around feeding the animals or cleaning the tents, before going off somewhere there's trouble, and back again in the night to gather around the fireplace?

Maybe have the Circus at the beginning of a story arc, leave and travel during the course of the case, and then return at the end of the story arc so they can share and talk?

Yeah, I think I can do with that.

Still hasn't answered the job question, but right now I have no idea. I have to imagine where Dick will be first if Didio isn't barricading him.

I think there's way to incorporate what you like about the circus into a non-circus status quo. I like those elements too — the colorful oddballs, the animals, the performative side of Dick. Here's how I would add that onto the pitch I laid out in my previous response, in which Dick is the Director of Charitable Undertakings for the Wayne Foundation. (Dick is the DCU).

His job is to use the Wayne money to make the world a better place. Remember "Batkid" back in like ...2013 I think it was? The thing where San Francisco's "Make A Wish" foundation created a city-wide scenario for a kid with cancer so he could go on a play-pretend Batman adventure? Imagine it's Dick's job to create experiences like that on a daily basis, worldwide.

Sometimes he's building houses. Sometimes he's delivering the greatest show on earth. Sometimes he's just a counselor to a kid in crisis. Dick Grayson as DCU of the WF (acronym pun intended) is a public presence, he's verified on social media.

Dick is a natural fit for being famous. As I mentioned in the other thread, I don't love Bruce as a celebrity in part because I think that trait makes more sense for Dick Grayson, who would be a fun celebrity (Dick Grayson would be a good guest on talk shows or podcasts; Bruce Wayne would not).

I like that it combines Dick's resume:
—Circus performer / gymnast / athlete / circus co-owner
—Police officer
—Social worker

What the circus brings out of Dick are the traits I like a lot — he gets to be very giving, very accepted and accepting, and also very cocky and daredevil. It's more fun for the story and the reader when Dick/Nightwing is having fun (which is also why Ric is such a bore).

But I think you get that, and better, with "Charity director." It's unique to Dick and unique to his role in the DCU, in and out of costume. Dick was created to bring light to Batman, in-universe, and meta-textually. By having Dick embody the compassionate side of Batman more directly, Dick becomes the antidote to the increasingly popular and increasingly relevant idea of Batman as deranged class warfare with the mega-rich preying on the weak and scared.

"Charity Director" with big funding from the world's rare compassionate corporation. In the modern performative mixed-media-reality age, with the comic book technology — Dick could bring in a Green Lantern to help make the world's best bounce-house, while Haly's Circus brings the animals for a petting zoo. Cynics would say Wayne is just doing this for show. But anyone that works with Dick Grayson knows the intentions are sincere. Dick Grayson can be any age but he should always be the "Boy Wonder." He is "Robin [Hood], the Boy Wonder." The tone of character implied by that phrase, to me, should be core to the character's DNA. It's not "Boy Struggler" or "Boy Failure" or "Boy NeverAMan"... Boy Wonder. Fun, flip, fast, friendly... fuhgeddaboutit.

Leslie Thompkins working with Dick Grayson ... has this ever happened?? I... I'm sure they've interacted but for the life of me can't think of any examples of them, one-on-one or even otherwise. I remember Jason with Leslie, Selina with Leslie, Steph with Leslie, tons of Bruce/Alfred with Leslie... but damn, blanking on Dick/Leslie.

Lastly, "Charity Director" is an open-ended concept. It can morph into being whatever it needs to be, that's the point of it, the adaptability (another element in which the job mirrors Dick as a character).

It would be hacky for the connection to the crime/superhero plot to be that "villain kills/kidnaps charity kid." So, as the editors of this new direction in this fantasy world, we would make sure that none of these geezers try to pitch that. Instead, the connection would be the reverse of that.... remember that this charity is a revamped version of "Victims Inc" -- these Make-A-Wish experiences that Dick creates also brings him closer to learning about the crime that created the tragedy that his charity is addressing. So this is basically like Make-A-Wish for people who have had loved ones killed by the a supervillain.

Or it's fine when it doesn't connect at all. Especially if he has a coworker like Leslie Thompkins (and I think also Luke Fox), his day job life could connect just by Dick bouncing ideas off his coworkers.

[dietrich]

I like Dick earning his own way. He most likely has a trust fund that he's able to access should he wish to but I like to think he doesn't preferring to be independent.


I like the Circus owner idea since he can be the owner without having to do the day to day management full time. This way he still retains that part of his history
Part time spy. that way Nightwing could still have the occasional globe trotting arcs.

I like the Gambler [also plays the market] because it doesn't have set hours and could be mined for lots of story ideas as well as could lead to stories set all around the world. For some reason it makes me think of the Grayson issue with the Princess, 007 and exotic casino settings.

I think it's important that he has a job that doesn't ties him down [flexible] since I like the idea of Dick being a character that operates not just in Bludhaven exclusively.

My problem with Dick being in charge of WF is that that just puts him further under Wayne/Batman. He's working with his support cast [Leslie] and the idea of using Dick's day job as the antidote to the increasingly popular and increasingly relevant idea of Batman as deranged class warfare with the mega-rich preying on the weak and scared is yet more of the Dick Grayson character being used in an attempt to service the Batman narrative.

The existence of WF should serve's as that antidote.

Dick is a core part of the Batman world but he is also an independent solo hero. his character suffers too often being used as Batman's supporting character rather than an independent hero with his own city and responsibilities.

Dick's day job should serve his narrative. Ideally enrich his supporting cast and his/Nightwing's world.

[Digifiend]

I feel like the circus setting works best as a place Dick can occasionally return to when he needs to get away from his current problems and recharge himself. Like the Kent farm for Superman. When they try and make it his job and setting it changes that to be a place full of drama and hardship for him, which ruins what I like about the circus. Him becoming the owner and having to manage all the people and costs makes it feel like a headache for him that he wouldn't enjoy.

He already WAS the owner of the circus, in Kyle Higgins' New 52 run. He tried to build a permanent home for them on Gotham's Amusement Mile, but Joker destroyed it (and killed two performers) before it could open, prompting the circus to decide to go back on tour when they got out of the hospital.

[Katana500]

I liked him teaching classes during Spyral - that was always fun.

[Restingvoice]

I think there's way to incorporate what you like about the circus into a non-circus status quo. I like those elements too — the colorful oddballs, the animals, the performative side of Dick. Here's how I would add that onto the pitch I laid out in my previous response, in which Dick is the Director of Charitable Undertakings for the Wayne Foundation. (Dick is the DCU).

Sometimes he's building houses. Sometimes he's delivering the greatest show on earth. Sometimes he's just a counselor to a kid in crisis. Dick Grayson as DCU of the WF (acronym pun intended) is a public presence, he's verified on social media.

My problem with Dick being in charge of WF is that that just puts him further under Wayne/Batman. He's working with his support cast [Leslie] and the idea of using Dick's day job as the antidote to the increasingly popular and increasingly relevant idea of Batman as deranged class warfare with the mega-rich preying on the weak and scared is yet more of the Dick Grayson character being used in an attempt to service the Batman narrative.

The existence of WF should serve's as that antidote.

Dick is a core part of the Batman world but he is also an independent solo hero. his character suffers too often being used as Batman's supporting character rather than an independent hero with his own city and responsibilities.

Dick's day job should serve his narrative. Ideally, enrich his supporting cast and his/Nightwing's world.

Yeah, that's my main concern too. Also, working for Wayne Enterprises is something he does between Batman RIP until the beginning of New 52. Attending fundraising gala, opening new buildings, basically filling in for Bruce's public face when he's not available. It's not exactly what you proposed, but the base idea is the same. It very much feels like a Batman supporting cast job.

We can use that idea if he's in Gotham since he's still Bruce's son and that attachment won't disappear... or if editorial doesn't have a hard-on with making him Batman's number 1 victim, but as of now, for the purpose of differentiating him with Batman, it shouldn't be his main job.

[Digifiend]

I liked him teaching classes during Spyral - that was always fun.

Hmm, maybe Helena can ask if her school needs a gym teacher?

[WonderNight]

I like Haley's circus it's 100% his.

Seeley already turned bludhevan into a giant haley's circus in his run so I'd just do this list of things.

1) return bludhevan back to Vegas entertainment city (no more Gotham lite) with alot of tourism and live events.

2) dick becomes Co-owner of the circus with haley's now adult daughter who handles the day to day 9 to 5 in bludhevan.

3) dick handles the P.R and talent relations, so now dick has to travel around the world for business making deals and being in talent and marketing the brand.

Now dick as co-owner has both the freedom and time to be nightwing as much as he needs and be a global hero, plus he keeps his own city and runs his own business.

P.s when dick is off globetrotting as business man/Nightwing stephanie/spoiler could be taking care of bludhevan. Give her something to do when she's not with tim/yj.

[Katana500]

Do people have much of an attachment to Bludhaven? I've always found it a slightly dull location. Does tying Dick down to a job in one city not restrict him quite a bit. Maybe he should have a more mobile job and base of operations. I think that was what helped make Spyral so good.