The Best There Is: Wolverine appreciation

[Hush]

After reading an extensive amount of issue of Wolverine (largely thanks to the list that Hush recomended) i sort of narrowed the quality of his ongoing

From 1988 to 1994 (vol 2 1-90 with Claremont, PAD, Goodwin, Duffy, Hama) is mostly a good ride with a couple of misses along the way, 1995 to 2000 (vol 2 91-158) is very hit and miss with some great stuff, some meh and things that i don't really want to see again, 2001 to 2005 (vol 2 159-189, vol 3 1-32) before House of M is another hit and miss, but with Rucka, Tieri and Millar is mostly a good ride even if is not perfect, after that the misses increased.... a lot, at lesdt when it came to his solo, wich also help my theory that Marvel largely went to hell around 2004 or 05 with HOM and Civil War .

Just a random thougth, any opinions?.

Yeah you perfectly summarized it :

- 1988-1995 (until AOA) is mostly great. I didn't like the Silver Fox retcon and the bone claws though.

- 1995 (post AOA)-2000 is the definition of hit and miss for Wolverine (same for the X-Men). Hama flashback issue (#-1), Ellis (#119-122), the short Wendigo story by Dezago (#129-130), the crime story by Nicieza (#132) and Skroce (#150-153) are all great and the art by Leinil Yu through this era is amazing too. But as a whole this is a directionless era for Logan and the X-Men

- 2001-2006 is the rebirth with Tieri, Rucka, Millar, New X-Men by Morrison, the Ultimate X-Men serie, Exiles, the Doop/Wolverine mini, and the movies. Unfortunately we also got the Wolverine origin mini, the House of M consequences and the beginning of Daniel Way run on Wolverine...

- 2006- 2010 is where things began to get ugly, Marvel put Logan everywhere and made him a punching bag. We also got both Way and Loeb destroying Logan's history. Only good things are the Old Man Logan story by Millar, the Weapon X serie by Aaron in 2009, the end of the Ultimate Wolverine vs Hulk mini and the Exiles "wolverines" arc (issues #85-86).

- 2010-2012 is no much better despite the superb Uncanny X-Force serie, the Wolverine/Jubilee mini, the Wolverine/Hercules mini by Tieri and the Astonishing Spider-Man/Wolverine mini. Aaron Wolverine's run is hit and miss, The Best there is by Hudson is just crazy and underrated and then Schism happened in 2011 and in 2012 we got AVX. Wolverine & the X-Men while fun at first (issue 17 is amazing) became really inconsistent after a while (the AVX tie ins, the circus arc, the Savage Land story and BOTA (mostly Bendis) weren't good at all) but the serie managed to finish on a good note at least.

- 2013-2014 is the lowest point for Wolverine thanks to Cornell lol, Origin II was terrible and Wolverine's death was underwhelming and rushed despite the good Logan's characterization. The Legacy/Wolverines series were both terrible. Wolverine & the X-Men by Latour was terrible, Amazing X-Men and Savage Wolverine were both uneven. Duggan and Posehn wrote a great Logan in their Deadpool run though.

- 2015-2018 is hit and miss for Wolverine's fans. The Old Man Logan serie is great, Lemire and Sorrentino really did a great job at rejuvenating the Wolverine franchise making it one of the most successful Marvel serie in recent years. Brisson is also doing a good job despite some pacing problems and I hope the serie will continue in the Wastelands.
All New Wolverine was interesting at first but between the inconsistent art, Laura's characterization, the annoying Gabby, the jabs at Logan and the rushed ending, I was a little disappointed in the end.
We also got the superb Logan movie so another good hit for this era. Wolverine's return was a good news and the way he returned in Legacy was great. The removal of Alonso and Paniccia from the X-Line was also a good news.

But unfortunately this era also brought us all those Wolverine knock-offs running around and they just pale in comparison to the classic Wolverine and to Laura, let's hope the Hunt and Extermination will do some cleanup before Logan's full return next year. The mischaracterization of Sabretooth is also one big negative and right now Creed needs to go away from Pak.

Now about the Hunt, I think it's too early to tell if it's good or bad. The whole thing is supposed to create a new statu quo for Logan, so I will reserve my judgement until everything is done and for now I have to admit I'm enjoying this saga.

2019 could be one hell of a good year for Wolverine's fans if Marvel don't messed up !

You know, Uncanny X-Men #133 is usually cited as the issue that make people start to care about Wolverine, leading to be the most popular X-Men, but i think that actually both Uncanny X-Men #116 is when the characther that we know today started to take form, so much of that issue feel like a prelude for what he would eventually turned out to be.

The arrival of Byrne on Uncanny X-Men is when Wolverine became interesting, Claremont didn't know what to do with the character and Byrne was the one who tried to make him compelling (because he was canadian like him).

source : https://issuu.com/twomorrows/docs/back_issue__4 (page 4)

Uncanny X-Men #109 where you see him hunt a deer just for sport and Uncanny X-Men #111 where he managed to resist Mesmero and free all the X-Men were both amazing and showed the readers that Logan wasn't just a savage killer but much more than that.

[TheCape]

Yeah you perfectly summarized it :

- 1988-1995 (until AOA) is mostly great. I didn't like the Silver Fox retcon and the bone claws though.

- 1995 (post AOA)-2000 is the definition of hit and miss for Wolverine (same for the X-Men). Hama flashback issue (#-1), Ellis (#119-122), the short Wendigo story by Dezago (#129-130), the crime story by Nicieza (#132) and Skroce (#150-153) are all great and the art by Leinil Yu through this era is amazing too. But as a whole this is a directionless era for Logan and the X-Men

- 2001-2006 is the rebirth with Tieri, Rucka, Millar, New X-Men by Morrison, the Ultimate X-Men serie, Exiles, the Doop/Wolverine mini, and the movies. Unfortunately we also got the Wolverine origin mini, the House of M consequences and the beginning of Daniel Way run on Wolverine...

- 2006- 2010 is a big mess again, Marvel put Logan everywhere and made him a punching bag. We also got both Way and Loeb destroying Logan's history. Only good things is the Old Man Logan story by Millar, the Weapon X serie by Aaron in 2009, the end of the Ultimate Wolverine vs Hulk mini and the Exiles 85-86 arc.

- 2010-2012 is a little better with Uncanny X-Force, the Wolverine/Jubilee mini, the Wolverine/Hercules mini by Tieri and the Astonishing Spider-Man/Wolverine mini. Aaron Wolverine's run is hit and miss, The Best there is by Hudson is just crazy and underrated and then Schism happened in 2011 and in 2012 we got AVX. Wolverine & the X-Men while fun at first (issue 17 is amazing) became really inconsistent after a while (the AVX tie ins, the circus arc, the Savage Land story and BOTA (mostly Bendis) weren't good at all) but the serie managed to finish on a good note at least.

- 2013-2014 is a mess again thanks to Cornell lol, Origin II was terrible and Wolverine's death was underwhelming and rushed despite the good Logan's characterization. The Legacy/Wolverines series were both terrible. Wolverine & the X-Men by Latour was terrible, Amazing X-Men and Savage Wolverine were both uneven. Duggan and Posehn wrote a great Logan in their Deadpool run though.

- 2015-2018 is hit and miss for Wolverine's fans. The Old Man Logan serie is great, Lemire and Sorrentino really did a great job at rejuvenating the Wolverine franchise making it one of the most successful Marvel serie in recent years. Brisson is also doing a good job despite some pacing problems and I hope the serie will continue in the Wastelands.
All New Wolverine was interesting at first but between the inconsistent art, Laura's characterization, the annoying Gabby, the jabs at Logan and the rushed ending, I was a little disappointed in the end.
We also got the superb Logan movie so another good hit for this era. Wolverine's return was a good news and the way he returned in Legacy was great. The removal of Alonso and Paniccia from the X-Line was also a good news.

But unfortunately this era also brought us all those Wolverine knock-offs running around and they just pale in comparison to the classic Wolverine and to Laura, let's hope the Hunt and Extermination will do some cleanup before Logan's full return next year. The mischaracterization of Sabretooth is also one big negative and right now Creed needs to go away from Pak.

Now about the Hunt, I think it's too early to tell if it's good or bad. The whole thing is supposed to create a new statu quo for Logan, so I will reserve my judgement until everything is done and for now I have to admit I'm enjoying this saga.

2019 could be one hell of a good year for Wolverine's fans if Marvel don't messed up !




The arrival of Byrne on Uncanny X-Men is when Wolverine became interesting, Claremont didn't know what to do with the character and Byrne was the one who tried to make him compelling (because he was canadian like him).

source : https://issuu.com/twomorrows/docs/back_issue__4 (page 4)

Uncanny X-Men #109 where you see him hunt a deer just for sport and Uncanny X-Men #111 where he managed to resist Mesmero and free all the X-Men were both amazing and showed the readers that Logan wasn't just a savage killer but much more than that.

I always been indifferent to the bone claws myself, but the Silver Fox retcon is a mess and the way that the story ends is just confusing

Ditto about the post AoA time period, great hits but a bunch of misses, althought some people here seem to like Erik Larsen run.

Unpopular opinion but i dislike Aaron's work more than i dislike Way and Loeb, in spite the fact that he has some good Wolverine stuff under his pen, Schism hurt the characther in the long term more than then frankly.

Cornell and Gillen were horrible thought. But Duggan did a great job with him in his Deadpool run, The whole headmaster Logan era could have been better if they didn't that much time with a hate boner from Cyclops, if didn't make a lot of sense why the octraziced him for the team.

True about Byrne too, right after the Lilandra arc, you can see the shift on characterization.

[Hush]

That's probably the best role that Wolverine has in the X-Men in a team book IMHO.

I still haven't finsishef the Dark Angel Saga (still on part 3), but i have enjoyed Wolverine there, specially the issue when Magneto asked him to kill that nazi (althougth i wonder why he asked him that), also it probably has the beat looking despiction of Logan (not pretty, but not to ugly either, it fits with him).

The reason why Magneto couldn't killed that nazi is explained in the Magneto serie by Bunn. It's a great serie and let's just say that this nazi really did a number on Magneto when he was a kid.

I always been indifferent to the bone claws myself, but the Silver Fox retcon is a mess and the way that the story ends is just confusing

Ditto about the post AoA time period, great hits but a bunch of misses, althought some people here seem to like Erik Larsen run.

Unpopular opinion but i dislike Aaron's work more than i dislike Way and Loeb, in spite the fact that he has some good Wolverine stuff under his pen, Schism hurt the characther in the long term more than then frankly.

Cornell and Gillen were horrible thought. But Duggan did a great job with him in his Deadpool run, The whole headmaster Logan era could have been better if they didn't that much time with a hate boner from Cyclops, if didn't make a lot of sense why the octraziced him for the team.

True about Byrne too, right after the Lilandra arc, you can see the shift on characterization.

Larsen's run wasn't bad but it was just boring for me. The first arc in space with Matsuda on art didn't grab me and the rest of his run was always the same thing. Basically each issue had the same setup (Wolverine team up with someone to fight a new villain, they beat him and that's it) but one thing I can say the art by Leinil Yu was astounding.

It also doesn't help that spoilers:

1/3 of his run didn't feature the real Wolverine

end of spoilers and while I liked the fight between Hulk and Wolverine in the 145th issue, the Sabretooth fight was just underwhelming and didn't make any sense for me.

I'm not the biggest fan of what Aaron did with the character after his Weapon X run but he did write some great stories especially "A miles in my mocassins" and the Astonishing Spider-Man mini (I think he would do great as a Spider-Man writer). But yeah I can see why some people don't like his take on the character especially after the Hell saga, Schism and AVX, I'm not a fan of those stories either.

[TheCape]

The reason why Magneto couldn't killed that nazi is explained in the Magneto serie by Bunn. It's a great serie and let's just say that this nazi really did a number on Magneto when he was a kid.



Larsen's run wasn't bad but it was just boring for me. The first arc in space with Matsuda on art didn't grab me and the rest of his run was always the same thing. Basically each issue had the same setup (Wolverine team up with someone to fight a new villain, they beat him and that's it) but one thing I can say the art by Leinil Yu was astounding.

It also doesn't help that spoilers:

1/3 of his run didn't feature the real Wolverine

end of spoilers and while I liked the fight between Hulk and Wolverine in the 145th issue, the Sabretooth fight was just underwhelming and didn't make any sense for me.

I'm not the biggest fan of what Aaron did with the character after his Weapon X run but he did write some great stories especially "A miles in my mocassins" and the Astonishing Spider-Man mini (I think he would do great as a Spider-Man writer). But yeah I can see why some people don't like his take on the character especially after the Hell saga, Schism and AVX, I'm not a fan of those stories either.

Here is my take with that, Loeb and Way were awfull, but i could understand what they were trying to say about Logan, he did horrible things, but he can move on if he chooses it and be better, the last issue of Origins if i remember correctly end with Logan being uncertain of what his life is going to be from that point on. the writing was sloppy and i personally don't like the retcons and new characthers introduced (Daken, Romulus, the Lupines, Nazi Wolverine, etc.), but conceptually i can get behind some of that. Other possible interpretation is Remender's take on Uncanny X-Force thought, "No man can't outrun his past no matter how hard he tries, i hope that you remember that when your victims come for you". i might be overanalizing, but i think that those 2 work as a valid narratives for Wolverine. even when we know that Marvel woulnd't never tell that story in the main universe. As for Aaron, he radically altered Logan's personality to make Schism work and it just goes downhill from there. That being said i agreed that "A mile in my mocassins" was great, clever way to use Logan's third mutation lol

[berserkerclaw]

I always been indifferent to the bone claws myself, but the Silver Fox retcon is a mess and the way that the story ends is just confusing

Ditto about the post AoA time period, great hits but a bunch of misses, althought some people here seem to like Erik Larsen run.

Unpopular opinion but i dislike Aaron's work more than i dislike Way and Loeb, in spite the fact that he has some good Wolverine stuff under his pen, Schism hurt the characther in the long term more than then frankly.

Cornell and Gillen were horrible thought. But Duggan did a great job with him in his Deadpool run, The whole headmaster Logan era could have been better if they didn't that much time with a hate boner from Cyclops, if didn't make a lot of sense why the octraziced him for the team.

True about Byrne too, right after the Lilandra arc, you can see the shift on characterization.

For me the ending of the Silverfox team x story isny confusing its just her being part of team x which is meh lol. The whole possibly having claws herself always rubbee me wrong.

[TheCape]

For me the ending of the Silverfox team x story isny confusing its just her being part of team x which is meh lol. The whole possibly having claws herself always rubbee me wrong.

That part is meh, but i thought it was confusing for how that telepath was messing with then in the illusions and suddenly ends with Creed killing Silver Fox again, is just head scratching, at least the "Requiem" issue right after was nice, i don't remember Fox having claws on that story thought, or we are talking about "The Native" by Rucka (that storyarc was an strange remix of Logan and Creed feud, specially when you get into the cabin, nice interaction beetween those 2 thought).

[Hush]

Here is my take with that, Loeb and Way were awfull, but i could understand what they were trying to say about Logan, he did horrible things, but he can move on if he chooses it and be better, the last issue of Origins if i remember correctly end with Logan being uncertain of what his life is going to be from that point on. the writing was sloppy and i personally don't like the retcons and new characthers introduced (Daken, Romulus, the Lupines, Nazi Wolverine, etc.), but conceptually i can get behind some of that. Other possible interpretation is Remender's take on Uncanny X-Force thought, "No man can't outrun his past no matter how hard he tries, i hope that you remember that when your victims come for you". i might be overanalizing, but i think that those 2 work as a valid narratives for Wolverine. even when we know that Marvel woulnd't never tell that story in the main universe. As for Aaron, he radically altered Logan's personality to make Schism work and it just goes downhill from there. That being said i agreed that "A mile in my mocassins" was great, clever way to use Logan's third mutation lol

For me nothing is worse than what Loeb, Way and Cornell did to the character, Loeb didn't care about what he did, just the last panel of the Sabretooth reborn arc say it all. Same for Way, what he did was just a big ill-conceived idea that went nowhere and damaged the character to the point that Aaron had to make sense of it during the "A mile in my mocassins" story and during some flashback in Wolverine's revenge.

I'm not a fan of Schism but if you look at what happened to Logan since House of M, you can see that he was having a big nervous breakdown at the time, Logan explained it in Wolverine "a miles in my mocassin". The guy recovered his memory in House of M and discovered he was no more than a puppet, an animal and a murderer most of his life in the Wolverine Origins serie and during the Loeb's run on the main Wolverine serie.
He also discovered that he got a son who was basically weaponized since he was a kid by the same guy who controlled him for years. On top of that, he also discovered before House of M that he got a young female clone that was also weaponized and used as an assassin since she was a kid.
Then you got the whole X-Force thing where Scott used Laura in the team without consulting Logan first and it didn't do her any good again.

He lost his best friend during Second Coming just after Nightcrawler discovered that Logan was leading a team of killers. He couldn't explain anything to Kurt before his death and it's something that hurt Logan again. Even Storm told him their friendship was over after she learned what he did :



He died during an adventure with Spider-Man and became an host of the Phoenix Force, he then went to hell where he met his biological father who is a monster and he was tricked by his own son and the Red Right Hand into killing his children who were again weaponized against him and his friends.

Another kid who was weaponized into becoming the greatest ennemy of mutantkind was killed by one member of his X-Force team and he had to deal with the consequences of it again. The kid was cloned and after that his son kidnapped him and tried to weaponize him.

Then you have the incident with Idie where Scott again told a young mentally unstable girl to do what she feels was right in a very messed up situation and that resulted in Idie killing people and not feeling any remorse for it. Scott was right on that day and Idie saved a lot of people but you can bet that after everything that happened to Logan in recent years and Scott recent behavior towards both Idie and Laura that Logan wouldn't want to use children as soldiers anymore.

I'm not a fan of Aaron's take on Logan (especially a lot of things after the end of the Astonishing Spider-Man & Wolverine mini) but frankly the guy had to work with the statu quo established by Bendis, Way, Loeb and the X-Editors so yeah it wasn't possible to write the same Logan that people loved in the past unfortunately.

Now what happened with AVX and beyond, yeah that one doesn't make a lot of sense especially Logan's attitude towards Scott and the fact he didn't warn him about the Avengers. As for the Wolverine & the X-Men serie a lot of people made fun of him during the serie, hell he even made fun of himself for trying to act as a headmaster.

Wolverine and the X-Men wasn't really a serie that take itself seriously so in the end it didn't bother me that much except for the Cyclops hate during BOTA and AVX, that was dumb (just like any X-crossovers that Bendis & Aaron co-wrote together).

That part is meh, but i thought it was confusing for how that telepath was messing with then in the illusions and suddenly ends with Creed killing Silver Fox again, is just head scratching, at least the "Requiem" issue right after was nice, i don't remember Fox having claws on that story thought, or we are talking about "The Native" by Rucka (that storyarc was an strange remix of Logan and Creed feud, specially when you get into the cabin, nice interaction beetween those 2 thought).

It's revealed in Wolverine #50 that she killed the Professor with some claws :

[TheCape]

For me nothing is worse than what Loeb, Way and Cornell did to the character, Loeb didn't care about what he did, just the last panel of the Sabretooth reborn arc say it all. Same for Way, what he did was just a big ill-conceived idea that went nowhere and damaged the character to the point that Aaron had to make sense of it during the "A mile in my mocassins" story and during some flashback in Wolverine's revenge.

I'm not a fan of Schism but if you look at what happened to Logan since House of M, you can see that he was having a big nervous breakdown at the time, Logan explained it in Wolverine "a miles in my mocassin". The guy recovered his memory in House of M and discovered he was no more than a puppet, an animal and a murderer most of his life in the Wolverine Origins serie and during the Loeb's run on the main Wolverine serie.
He also discovered that he got a son who was basically weaponized since he was a kid by the same guy who controlled him for years. On top of that, he also discovered before House of M that he got a young female clone that was also weaponized and used as an assassin since she was a kid.
Then you got the whole X-Force thing where Scott used Laura in the team without consulting Logan first and it didn't do her any good again.

He lost his best friend during Second Coming just after Nightcrawler discovered that Logan was leading a team of killers. He couldn't explain anything to Kurt before his death and it's something that hurt Logan again. Even Storm told him their friendship was over after she learned what he did :



He died during an adventure with Spider-Man and became an host of the Phoenix Force, he then went to hell where he met his biological father who is a monster and he was tricked by his own son and the Red Right Hand into killing his children who were again weaponized against him and his friends.

Another kid is killed by one member of his X-Force team and he had to deal with the consequences of it again.

Then you have the incident with Idie where Scott again told a young mentally unstable girl to do what she feels was right in a very messed up situation and that resulted in Idie killing people and not feeling any remorse for it. Scott was right on that day and Idie saved a lot of people but you can bet that after everything that happened to Logan in recent years and Scott recent behavior towards both Idie and Laura that Logan wouldn't want to use children as soldiers anymore.

I'm not a fan of Aaron's take on Logan (especially a lot of things after the end of the Astonishing Spider-Man & Wolverine mini) but frankly the guy had to work with the statu quo established by Bendis, Way, Loeb and the X-Editors so yeah it wasn't possible to write the same Logan that people loved in the past unfortunately.

Now what happened with AVX and beyond, yeah that one doesn't make a lot of sense especially Logan's attitude towards Scott and the fact he didn't warn him about the Avengers. As for the Wolverine & the X-Men serie a lot of people made fun of him during the serie, hell he even made fun of himself for trying to act as a headmaster.

Wolverine and the X-Men is not really a serie that take itself seriously so in the end it didn't bother me that much.




It's revealed in Wolverine #50 that she killed the Professor with some claws :

Interesting analysis, actually i always theorized that Logan's action on the Schism has a lot to do with him regaining his memories did have a more deep effect on Logan's mind that we thougth, i always thougth that his beat with Scott would have made more sense if he brougth up Laura during rhe confrontation, but i'm not sure if he did, i do remember him being piss at him in the first issue of X-Force. But becuase is not really adressed on the page itself, is difficult to see it that way, making Logan come across as he was having an hissy fit about than an actual point and not adressing his hipocresy. Also, personally speaking, i don't think that it made sense for Logan or any other X-Men to keep "Xavier Dream alive" after the revelations about Danger and Deadly Genesis, but at the very least he named it after an old friend so that kind of works, i don't mind the more comedic tone set by WaTX but i think that i run out of steam after AvX. But that might have to do with editorial direction at the time.

Thanks for that reminder about Silver Fox, that was weird.

[TheCape]

For another, Logan did a pretty good job as a headmaster, at least he didn't got a bus of children killed

(i joke, but is surprising that Logan actually did a better job as headmaster than any other X-Men).

[Hush]

Interesting analysis, actually i always theorized that Logan's action on the Schism has a lot to do with him regaining his memories did have a more deep effect on Logan's mind that we thougth, i always thougth that his beat with Scott would have made more sense if he brougth up Laura during rhe confrontation, but i'm not sure if he did, i do remember him being piss at him in the first issue of X-Force. But becuase is not really adressed on the page itself, is difficult to see it that way, making Logan come across as he was having an hissy fit about than an actual point and not adressing his hipocresy. Also, personally speaking, i don't think that it made sense for Logan or any other X-Men to keep "Xavier Dream alive" after the revelations about Danger and Deadly Genesis, but at the very least he named it after an old friend so that kind of works, i don't mind the more comedic tone set by WaTX but i think that i run out of steam after AvX. But that might have to do with editorial direction at the time.

Thanks for that reminder about Silver Fox, that was weird.

Yeah him recovering his memory might have changed his view of the world and about the hypocrisy it was inconsistent. Logan mentioned it in Uncanny Avengers #24 where he tells Rogue and Wanda that he's just an hypocrite and he's not fit to carry Xavier's Dream.

I do agree "Xavier's Dream" really don't make a lot of sense anymore especially after Deadly Genesis, Astonishing X-Men and the Original Sin crossover from Wolverine Origins/X-Men Legacy. I don't know why Marvel thought it was a good idea to completely destroys Xavier after House of M, complete character assassination. Same for Beast (thanks Bendis) and Wolverine that's just sad.

Yeah the serie was uneven after AVX, I still like the exchange between Logan and Scott in Wolverine and the X-Men #40 which should have been the end of the schism, but yeah Marvel Editors just said NO ! Also the scene when Logan sees Kurt again for the first time since his death in Amazing X-Men was nice.



No problem about Silver Fox, I missed the claws thing the first time I read this issue lol.

For another, Logan did a pretty good job as a headmaster, at least he didn't got a bus of children killed

(i joke, but is surprising that Logan actually did a better job as headmaster than any other X-Men).

Shhh keep your voice down, people will throw a tantrum if they hear you says that lol.

[Paracelsus47]

I don't really understand why people suddenly started to accuse Logan of hypocricy after Shism and AvX.I mean,wasn't he always a hypocritical character at his core? A most complex man fighting his dark impulses, making numerous mistakes, while at the same time trying to become something better despite all the horrors in his life. If anything, these contradictions are precisely what makes him one of the most humane, interesting and likable characters. And "Xavier's dream" has far outgrown the person it's named after, so it's not really surprising Logan decided to pursue it.

[TheCape]

I don't really understand why people suddenly started to accuse Logan of hypocricy after Shism and AvX.I mean,wasn't he always a hypocritical character at his core? A most complex man fighting his dark impulses, making numerous mistakes, while at the same time trying to become something better despite all the horrors in his life. If anything, these contradictions are precisely what makes him one of the most humane, interesting and likable characters. And "Xavier's dream" has far outgrown the person it's named after, so it's not really surprising Logan decided to pursue it.

If has to do with execution mostly, Logan is a monster that tries to be an honorable samurai, trying to atone for his deeds and being a better person, but you rarely see much of a self rigtheous vibe with him, he would give his opinion but doesn't judge unless that it was someone clearly worse than him like Mystique or Creed, seeing him calling fellow heroes for their dubious actions, specially when they probably don't compare to what he has done can rub in the wrong way, now this development wasn't necesarely bad, as Hush said he did acknolwdge it sometimes and other people call him out for it, but is really hard to see people treating him better than lets say Cyclops when his crimes aren't much worse than him, not mentioning his holier than thou attitude that he carried toward him for the best part of the post Schism era and the lack of an explanation. As for "Xavier's Dream" i agreed to disagreed in that regard.

[TheCape]

Yeah him recovering his memory might have changed his view of the world and about the hypocrisy it was inconsistent. Logan mentioned it in Uncanny Avengers #24 where he tells Rogue and Wanda that he's just an hypocrite and he's not fit to carry Xavier's Dream.

I do agree "Xavier's Dream" really don't make a lot of sense anymore especially after Deadly Genesis, Astonishing X-Men and the Original Sin crossover from Wolverine Origins/X-Men Legacy. I don't know why Marvel thought it was a good idea to completely destroys Xavier after House of M, complete character assassination. Same for Beast (thanks Bendis) and Wolverine that's just sad.

Yeah the serie was uneven after AVX, I still like the exchange between Logan and Scott in Wolverine and the X-Men #40 which should have been the end of the schism, but yeah Marvel Editors just said NO ! Also the scene when Logan sees Kurt again for the first time since his death in Amazing X-Men was nice.



No problem about Silver Fox, I missed the claws thing the first time I read this issue lol.




Shhh keep your voice down, people will throw a tantrum if they hear you says that lol.

Yup, appearing in eleven books a month didn't do well for his charactherization, i had my theory of why they did that to those 3 characthers but.... well lets just say that Cyclops fans won't like what i think about it .

Yeah you're rigth, logic and facts don't any place when it comes to Logan in this forum .

Also Kurt and Logan are amazing as buddies i really like how Rucka wrote then together at the end of "The Brotherhood".

[Gylfie]

More art from Return of Wolverine:
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/07...f-wolverine-1/

[Gylfie]