Batman #85 talk.

[K. Jones]

There's beats in this issue that I like. But as a whole ... well I'll save total thoughts for the Run itself in a "King Run" talk. But this issue?

He did what they all seem like they can't resist anymore. He got to the last issue and he told the events of the CLIMAX of the story in flashback. Negating, neutering, killing, any build-up, momentum, shock or page-turning surprise it might have had. Look, I get that we're Batman readers and we know that "BATMAN WINS" on the last page. Stories aren't exactly original stories ... but you hope they have enough twists, turns, cool moments, genuine surprises, occasional shockers or bombshells, canon tweaks, continuity gems unearthed, or whatever, to get you to the endzone.

And he couldn't resist doing it. Cutting his own feet off right before the landing.

Grant Morrison did this at the end of Batman, Incorporated. Now, I LIKE how he framed the device in that issue (Inc # 13) because of the callback to Batman # 1 and the sitdown with Bruce Wayne and Jim Gordon talking about the mysterious Batman. But I still believe it negated its own build-up of momentum by jumping to "AFTER IT ALL WENT DOWN, HERE, LET ME TELL YOU HOW IT ENDED".

King's does even worse than this because it jumps ahead in time to give you the "I'm fine, we're all fine, let me tell you how it ended" (giving a vibe of telling how a story ends rather than showing it end). But then within THAT the chronology of events jumps around, and in typical King form, he explains none of the mechanics of even how a character got from Point A to Point B. Look folks, Claire is okay, that Secret Files short story counts, she was insane five minutes ago but now she and Bruce are joking around! And look, I understand that King's McGuffin is PSYCHO PIRATE. And if you have ANY questions about the story hurdles, logic leaps or plot holes ... PSYCHO PIRATE.

But yeah, you know, this isn't a novel. Art with graphics - art with imagery - comics, folks - while they do well and dandy with flashbacks, are an art-form that moves the eye along the page a specific way. And therefore have a real "forward momentum" as you read, similar to a movie. So they don't have the leisure time that a Novel has to really dive into chronological, out-of-sequence storytelling. There's exceptions to every rule and flashbacks, history lessons, jumps, are more than welcome ... when used as flourish or device in an otherwise fairly Straightforward Story. I pine for a Straightforward Story Plot with an actual A to B to C sequential story to go with the sequential art ... maybe then all the implied "how they got to places" would actually kind of be apparent.

Now that said! I've ranted a fair amount about the bad form of using a sequence-break jump-ahead/jump-back issue to end your story. And I stand by that vehemently because it's just a flashy dumb trick that doesn't actually contribute anything of value to your comic book story arc. Also, you know, no actual resolution to Psycho Pirate whatsoever.

But there was things I liked!

Bruce Wayne at a bar with Kite Man just watching football was quite nice. Bane unceremoniously dumping the bad plot point of Batman's "You're Not My Dad" was actually kind of funny. Bane is alive ... uh, because. But that's okay. Frankly I think going in I suspected "Bane will be fine, Flashpoint Batman won't be, so why bother at all with this charade?" But it's funny to laugh out loud at that realization. Catwoman was quite fine, especially once we jumped to them just hanging out on roofs at night, bantering and punching Z-Listers and then smashing their way all the way home, where Isis the cat now presumably prowls Wayne Manor and catches and eats bats on the regular. Bruce admitting that he had the boys over and he actually made tea and sandwiches only to be interrupted by a bat-signal was a shockingly good scene.

[Jackalope89]

An okay end to an otherwise disappointing run. One that I wish hadn't turned out this way because I was REALLY into it up until the halfway point.

Kinda wish they hadn't wimped out on the marriage but I honestly wasn't expecting it to happen at this point anyway. As a Bat/Cat fan, I'm glad they're at least together and "kinda" married. But now that that's all out of the way, can we bring Selina down off that godforsaken pedestal and stop acting like she's the only person in the world who matters to Bruce? Congrats Batman. You got the girl. Now go back to at least pretending you can be a functional human being when she's not in the same room with you. Maybe start being a father/mentor to the kids you've neglected for the past three years. You know. The ones who've apparently never brought you any real joy.

Cure Dick, catch up with Tim, be an actual parent to Damian, and apologize on his hands and knees to Jason for not trusting him, beating the living daylights out of him, be a decent parental figure to Cass, and not be a dick to Steph.

And that's just for starters.

[Nero]

Well, I for one am glad it's over.

I say that not as someone who "hates" King on a personal level but as someone who considers him to be one of the worst Batman writers I've ever seen. All of these characters that King crammed into this "City of Crap", event and not a single one of them made a difference to me on any level because they all felt like they were wasted.

Alfred was wasted on a meaningless death.

The Bat-family were wasted just to put over Darth Batman.

Darth Batman was just a waste in general but he proceeded to be further wasted just to put over Catwoman (because according to King, Batman is pretty much useless without her).

Bane himself was wasted because in the end he was just another pawn who looked and sounded stupid like a typical Saturday Morning cartoon villain with "There's no escape, Batman!", "Time to die, Batman!, " and no I'm not impressed with him "breaking" someone who never should have been in this story in the first place because Bane was still the afterthought in his own event.

Ultimately, Batman was wasted because at no point did he ever come across like Batman to me. Because King's insistence on making Bat/Cat into some harlequin romance, it came at the expense of Batman being Batman. For an example, Darth Batman takes out the Bat-family and pretty much slaps Batman around like he's a hockey puck even has Batman down on the ground reeling. The Batman I know would not have needed to sic Catwoman on his enemy and have her take the lion share of the victory, he would have gotten back up and proceeded to kick the guy's ass on his own. But King wants to make Catwoman the center of Batman's universe by having her recite asinine dialogue like, "Gotham is MY city", or insinuate that Batman was NEVER happy until he's with Catwoman which is an absolute lie (he was happy with other women like Silver St. Cloud, Vesper Fairchild, Vicki Vale, etc). King has said in various interviews that there were two points he wanted to make during his run on Batman. The first, Batman loves Catwoman. The second, Bane is evil. My point is, you don't need a long, over convoluted event to tell me that.

City of Batman should have been fun but it was practically a chore to get through because it was consumed with nonsensical, inconsistent crap.

[Astralabius]

There seems to be some confusion about Doomsday Clock. The only thing it said about Bruce having a daughter is this:20191219_125524.jpg
It comics, there's a lot of ways to age someone up and what exactly is supposed to happen is really vague, but "lost daughter" saving Bruce's son 2026 doesn't sound like Selina giving birth to a daughter and raising her with Bruce. She would be like what? Six years old? And she's supposed to save Damian?

[Restingvoice]

There seems to be some confusion about Doomsday Clock. The only thing it said about Bruce having a daughter is this:20191219_125524.jpg
It comics, there's a lot of ways to age someone up and what exactly is supposed to happen is really vague, but "long lost daughter" saving Bruce's son 2026 doesn't sound like Selina giving birth to a daughter and raising her with Bruce. She would be like what? Six years old? And she's supposed to save Damian?

She can if she's immune to whatever virus they will set on Bruce's son

[Katana500]

Its the fact she is 'long lost' that is throwing me off.

If Selena just got pregnant you wouldn't expect her and Bruce to somehow lose the baby between its birth and 6th birthday.

[Gotham citizen]

There seems to be some confusion about Doomsday Clock. The only thing it said about Bruce having a daughter is this:20191219_125524.jpg
It comics, there's a lot of ways to age someone up and what exactly is supposed to happen is really vague, but "long lost daughter" saving Bruce's son 2026 doesn't sound like Selina giving birth to a daughter and raising her with Bruce. She would be like what? Six years old? And she's supposed to save Damian?

Maybe they are talking about the Helena Wayne of Earth-2.

I hope I'm wrong because it would be a story in "X-men style": where Apocalypse infected Cable (the son of Scott Summers/Cyclops and the Jean Grey's clone Magdalene Prior) with a techno virus, Cyclops sent his son in an alternative future, where Rachel Summers (the daughter of the Scott and Jean of another alternative reality) raised and protected Cable from Apocalypse.

[Restingvoice]

Its the fact she is 'long lost' that is throwing me off.

If Selena just got pregnant you wouldn't expect her and Bruce to somehow lose the baby between its birth and 6th birthday.

Losing a baby right after they're born only to find them when they're grown up is a telenovela plot and Batfam is basically telenovela

Seriously though, I won't be surprised if Ra's or Hush kidnap her to raise her according to their vision

[Astralabius]

Losing a baby right after they're born only to find them when they're grown up is a telenovela plot and Batfam is basically telenovela

Seriously though, I won't be surprised if Ra's or Hush kidnap her to raise her according to their vision

Damian 2.0.

Edit: Or Athanasia Al Ghul

[Tzigone]

Losing a baby right after they're born only to find them when they're grown up is a telenovela plot and Batfam is basically telenovela

True, but one would think Superman would be helping find the child from the day they know she's missing (which, if she's Selina's, they know as soon as Selina gives birth to her if Selina wasn't killed/brainwashed/amnesia-fied/held-hostage-but-looks-like-she-ditched) instead of waiting until they needed her for Damian's sake.

Damian 2.0.

Edit: Or Athanasia Al Ghul

I'd really rather not.

I still miss the idea that Selina could have her own child that was not Bruce's (just like Bruce has kids - including a bio one - that are not hers) and they could still end up together. That the child didn't have to be his to be of value or importance in the DC universe. Not that I think Bruce and Selina will be together long-term - don't think DC will let anything like that happen.

I do expect something unconventional with this child, if it plays out at all (not AU and no universe reboot and whatnot). They certainly won't have a too-young-to-be-sidekick kid hanging around. No one gets to raise their kids - they are killed off or aged up or only appear once side-kick (or replacement, in Connor's case) age.

[kaimaciel]

There seems to be some confusion about Doomsday Clock. The only thing it said about Bruce having a daughter is this:20191219_125524.jpg
It comics, there's a lot of ways to age someone up and what exactly is supposed to happen is really vague, but "long lost daughter" saving Bruce's son 2026 doesn't sound like Selina giving birth to a daughter and raising her with Bruce. She would be like what? Six years old? And she's supposed to save Damian?

Oh God, not more kids. Batcave is crowded as it is.

[Restingvoice]

True, but one would think Superman would be helping find the child from the day they know she's missing (which, if she's Selina's, they know as soon as Selina gives birth to her if Selina wasn't killed/brainwashed/amnesia-fied/held-hostage-but-looks-like-she-ditched) instead of waiting until they needed her for Damian's sake.

Oh good, so now that we've narrowed it down, she's going to another dimension or time where super hearing can't reach her

[Desmark]

Oh good, so now that we've narrowed it down, she's going to another dimension or time where super hearing can't reach her

Not to mention planet.... Bet Batman of Zur En Aarh kidnaps her.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

Well, that was done. I guess King only has his usual decompressed and then this super compressed. Granted, his run got cut short, so he had to wrap things up pretty quick. Pretty anti-climatic if you ask me for what's the end of a 85 issue long story.

Can't wait for Tynion, Daniels, and March!

[adrikito]

There seems to be some confusion about Doomsday Clock. The only thing it said about Bruce having a daughter is this:20191219_125524.jpg
It comics, there's a lot of ways to age someone up and what exactly is supposed to happen is really vague, but "long lost daughter" saving Bruce's son 2026 doesn't sound like Selina giving birth to a daughter and raising her with Bruce. She would be like what? Six years old? And she's supposed to save Damian?

That confused me too.. But reading the rest.. The things about earth 1, earth 2.. etc.. I ignored it..

ANYWAY. I still remember ONE N52 GREEN LANTERN COMIC PREDICTIONS.. Jessica and Baz appeared but I remember that Hal wll marry Carol and he is still single.

Maybe we should not be worried about that.. In the case that DC decides really make this in 2026.. Maybe we should wait 6 YEARS.

Maybe they are talking about the Helena Wayne of Earth-2.

I really hope that they talk about Earth 2 Helena. We don´t need more Batfamily.

Or Athanasia Al Ghul

I don´t like atanasia.

If I want one COOL CHARACTER(Something that it can not fit her) WITH GUNS I have JASON TOOD Here.