Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker- critical reaction

[Username taken]

Luke was unconscious at that moment, and his training was incomplete, and if he could telepathically communicate to Leia why didn't he do it as soon as he arrived at Cloud City?

I think that scene shows Leia having some connection to the Force. That's how everyone has interpreted it.

I am not saying that Lucas had decided mid-ESB that Leia was Luke's sister. I am saying that Lucas had some subsonscious instincts that was geared towards that direction and that when he worked on ROTJ he went there.


It's very similar to how Anakin became Vader. It wasn't something that solidified until Lucas wrote the draft for ESB after Brackett stepped down but if you follow the development of Star Wars from the original drafts to ANH and so on, and if you see the direction of Obi-Wan (a character who really developed during production) in ANH, it feels like it was something Lucas was working towards subconsciously.

He wasn't unconscious. He called Leia ("Ben...Leia...hear me") when he was falling out Bespin.

But the movie did hint at Leia being force sensitive. Yoda also told Obi-Wan that if Luke fails "there's another".

[Starter Set]

Well, we're fixed now. The sequels are complete garbage, start to finish.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

He wasn't unconscious. He called Leia ("Ben...Leia...hear me") when he was falling out Bespin.

But the movie did hint at Leia being force sensitive. Yoda also told Obi-Wan that if Luke fails "there's another".

Cool. Agree with this.

[WebLurker]

I must be one of the few people who liked both TLJ and TROS. It's a weird feeling.

[thwhtGuardian]

I must be one of the few people who liked both TLJ and TROS. It's a weird feeling.

I liked the Last Jedi more than Force Awakens, but it's definitely still down the bottom of my Star Wars ranking.

[David Walton]

I must be one of the few people who liked both TLJ and TROS. It's a weird feeling.

I liked the Last Jedi more than Force Awakens, but it's definitely still down the bottom of my Star Wars ranking.

All the people I know who aren't diehard SW fans loved TLJ and TROS. By that I mean people who follow all the films but don't keep up with the SW internet culture.

[thwhtGuardian]

All the people I know who aren't diehard SW fans loved TLJ and TROS. By that I mean people who follow all the films but don't keep up with the SW internet culture.

Yeah, the whole sequel trilogy is pretty popular with the general audience, you'll never hear me say otherwise. They just aren't my favorites, and that's no big deal.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I'll meet you this far. I can fully imagine that Lucas kept his options open was was prepared to deviate from his original storyline depending on actors' availability and audience reactions. But to suppose that what ended up on screen was not largely his original vision, at least in terms of family relationships, is directly contradicted by Lucas' first draft of the Star Wars movie.

First off it's well documented the first film was designed to be a one off. Nobody knew it would suceed enough to get a sequel. In fact Lucas wrote a book that was designed to be his outlet if the film failed.

Also despite your insistance here, it's well documented based off original scripts (that would have been made well after the original came out), early charcacter visions, and statements from filmmakers that it was never narratively planned out as much as you say. It's been well established and backed up that Vader being Anakin was a last minute idea Lucas came up with that was inserted into the story. In fact it was written when the original screenwriter got cancer and died and Lucas was forced to rewrite the script and take it in new directions. It's also well established that Luke's sister wasn't going to be Leia and the the idea was that their would be a film that would be based around a search for Luke's sister. Later it was reformatted because Lucas decided he wanted to end this section of the story in a neat narrative and then do a prequel trilogy.

Even small things like freezing Han in carbonite were done because Harrison Ford didn't have a contract for the third film and they needed to give themselves wiggle room if he didn't come bacl

Just to put this context, the driving motivations of the protagonists in the final film of the OT that informed every decision made in the climax were mostly borne out of last minute changes and things they couldn't possibly have planned for.

It's possible to write things on the fly without a grand plan and then make things work. GRRM does it on a far more complicated scale in his ASOIAF series. And quite frankly, Lucas had to devote sections of his films to scenes they never intended like going back to Dagobah in ROTJ to clarify and recontextualize early conversations from the first film because of the last minute script insertions he had in Empire.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Lucas definitely believed that Star Wars should have multiple movies. But he was also pragmatic at the outset about whether there was an audience for stuff beyond that.

So it’s not accurate to say that ANH was intended as a one off. Like the shot at the end of ANH with Vader’s ship spinning out was added in late because Lucas wanted Vader to be the sole survivor of the Death Star in case of sequels.

To me it’s not as simple as Star Wars was entirely made up as it went along or it was planned to fine detail. Neither is completely true nor completely false. Fact is these movies were the work of a single guy, with a distinct vision and intellectual interest. The product of a single artist even when they are improvising tends to be cohesive in the same way that all the choices made by a person in real life feel logical and in character even when they seem to contradict each other.

[David Walton]

Lucas definitely believed that Star Wars should have multiple movies. But he was also pragmatic at the outset about whether there was an audience for stuff beyond that.

So it’s not accurate to say that ANH was intended as a one off. Like the shot at the end of ANH with Vader’s ship spinning out was added in late because Lucas wanted Vader to be the sole survivor of the Death Star in case of sequels.

To me it’s not as simple as Star Wars was entirely made up as it went along or it was planned to fine detail. Neither is completely true nor completely false. Fact is these movies were the work of a single guy, with a distinct vision and intellectual interest. The product of a single artist even when they are improvising tends to be cohesive in the same way that all the choices made by a person in real life feel logical and in character even when they seem to contradict each other.

That's very well put and I'm completely agreed.

[WebLurker]

I liked the Last Jedi more than Force Awakens, but it's definitely still down the bottom of my Star Wars ranking.

Fair enough. I think I like Force Awakens better, although I think that Last Jedi is better objectively speaking. (I think both are better then Rise of Skywalker, but I do think all three are better then average and would be somewhere within the top half of my favorites in the series.)

All the people I know who aren't diehard SW fans loved TLJ and TROS. By that I mean people who follow all the films but don't keep up with the SW internet culture.

Still feel weird, since I'm not a casual fan.

[Celgress]

That's very well put and I'm completely agreed.

As do I. Great job, Jack.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

As do I. Great job, Jack.

Wow. Thanks. Means a great deal.

[Beaddle]

I liked the Last Jedi more than Force Awakens, but it's definitely still down the bottom of my Star Wars ranking.

I also liked the last jedi more than force awakens, I was bored with force awakens, the movie was very bland both in story telling and technicals. George Lucas was right when he said, TFA did nothing new.

With Last Jedi I was never bored, I just sat there wide awake seeing some of this characters like Luke get character assassinated. Rey continuing her Mary Sue journey, Even the casino chase scene that could have been cut out of the movie was never boring because it was obvious, it did not belong there.

TLJ > TFA> ROS

[ChrisIII]

I thought part of Canto Bright was kind of the latest homage to the cantina scene. Even had similar music. Although obviously Canto was a bit more classy.