Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker- critical reaction

[Sacred Knight]

And that's fine that you did.

Leaving and returning did accomplish something. It was just something really bad that then had to be averted. That was literally the crux of the final seasons. And seasons 4 and 5 was mostly rushed due to the writers strike. That derailed a lot of the planning. Again, you still probably wouldn't have gotten your wish of larger island mysteries being explained, they were never going to do that because again as documented it was over their head, and that's more than a valid criticism, but it was still a big factor in the flow of things having to be rushed and certain plot points having to be omitted altogether.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

It took 15 years for them to make a SW film worse than AOTC. Now it only takes two for them to make one worse than TLJ. This was, embarrassing. And tossing out everything accomplished in the OT for this, I regret ever having put any faith in them to handle this well. The Skywalker Saga deserved a FAR better ending than this.

It did get a better ending. It was called Return of the Jedi. Here's the reality, at the end of the day, this trilogy accomplished nothing significant. It brought back the status quo we thought we got in ROTJ only it decided to murder and piss on all the original characters to do it

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Not sure about the definition of "Mystery Box" but the only
thing that remotely fits is who was Empire's "Other" with Force Potential.

I frankly doubt that Lucas had Leia planned to be the other all along or he wouldn't have teased them as a possible
couple.

So whatever else is wrong (or right) with this new trilogy...making stuff up as they go along is nothing new for Star Wars.

So here's the thing with that... it was said in Empire because it wanted to make you think "oh Luke can die here because there's someone else who could rise up if he fails"

[Celgress]

And that's fine that you did.

Leaving and returning did accomplish something. It was just something bad that then had to be averted. That was literally the crux of the final seasons. And seasons 4 and 5 was mostly rushed due to the writers strike. That derailed a lot of the planning. Again, you still probably wouldn't have gotten your wish of larger island mysteries being explained, they were never going to do that because again as documented it was over their head, and that's more than a valid criticism, but it was still a big factor in the flow of things having to be rushed and certain plot points having to be omitted altogether.

The whole purpose of a mystery show is to resolve those mysteries otherwise those plot points don't matter. This is my stand regarding Lost.

[Sacred Knight]

I frankly doubt that Lucas had Leia planned to be the other all along or he wouldn't have teased them as a possible
couple.

He definitely didn't. Leia wasn't made into Luke's sister till the planning stages of ROTJ.

Personally I think, in the end, that the planning argument is overstated and really didn't factor in one way or another. This was far more about not screening their director choices better in regards to general on-the-same-page vision. Johnson just had a vastly different and outlier approach. Everyone has their own style, and that still could have shone through like the contrast between Lucas' ANH and Kirschner's ESB. But they should have been hand-on enough to get similarly minded directors at least in terms of overall vision

The whole purpose of a mystery show is to resolve those mysteries otherwise those plot points don't matter. This is my stand regarding Lost.

Fair enough, I certainly respect you have a differing take, I'm just on another side of the fence. Some mysteries I like staying mysteries and think actually enhance a lore. Why does Michael Myers kill? Why the interest in Laurie Strode specifically? Mysteries set up that weren't intended to be answered, he just did. And once sequels did go out of their way to craft answers, it made things less interesting. I'm not giving Lindleof/Cuse the same level of regard as to Carpenter in this comparison, again, fully acknowledged that they just didn't know, but in the end I personally consider that a happy accident.

[Celgress]

He definitely didn't. Leia wasn't made into Luke's sister till the planning stages of ROTJ.

Personally I think, in the end, that the planning argument is overstated and really didn't factor in one way or another. This was far more about not screening their director choices better. Johnson just had a vastly different and outlier approach. Everyone has their own style, and that still could have shone through like the contrast between Lucas' ANH and Kirschner's ESB, but they should have been hand-on enough to get similarly minded directors in key aspects.


Fair enough, I certainly respect you have a differing take, I'm just on another side of the fence. Some mysteries I like staying mysteries and think actually enhance a lore. Why does Michael Myers kill? Why the interest in Laurie Strode specifically? Mysteries set up that weren't intended to be answered, he just did. And once sequels did go out of their way to craft answers, it made things less interesting. I'm not giving Lindleof/Cuse the same level of regard as to Carpenter in this comparison, again, fully acknowledged that they just didn't know, but in the end I personally consider that a happy accident.

But the main selling point of Halloween isn't the mysteries it's the body count (as with any slasher flick) unlike a show the type of Lost. A better analogy would be Sherlock Holmes but then your example falls flat because Sherlock does solve the mysteries lol. If a show doesn't want to solve its mysteries than don't become a mystery show, easy solution.

[Sacred Knight]

The fear of him was more of a selling point than body count, and that fear was largely fostered by his mystery, by really the intentional nothingness of him. Yes it was the first slasher flick but it doesn't even have a high body count; that was a lesser appeal. The copy cats would rely way more on actual body count. Some to great affect don't get me wrong but that wasn't what made Halloween fly. There's a reason that his nickname became The Shape. So I don't believe the comparison falls flat at all outside of intent, which I already made sure to qualify and certainly get the warranted criticism for from a writing perspective even if it happened to largely go my way.

[Celgress]

The fear of him was more of a selling point than body count, and that fear was largely fostered by his mystery, by really the intentional nothingness of him. Yes it was the first slasher flick but it doesn't even have a high body count; that was a lesser appeal. The copy cats would rely way more on actual body count. Some to great affect don't get me wrong but that wasn't what made Halloween fly. There's a reason that his nickname became The Shape. So I don't believe the comparison falls flat at all outside of intent, which I already made sure to qualify and certainly get the warranted criticism for from a writing perspective even if it happened to largely go my way.

I still say mystery or no mystery the unstoppable, supernatural aspect of the Shape is the selling point. The entire Super Slasher thing was started by Halloween. Lost on the other hand was a mystery show first and foremost which caused it to ultimately fail IMO when it refused to resolve its many mysteries. Everyone who watched it was trying to guess the answers to the mysteries that was the selling point.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

[David Walton]

Some mysteries I like staying mysteries and think actually enhance a lore. Why does Michael Myers kill? Why the interest in Laurie Strode specifically? Mysteries set up that weren't intended to be answered, he just did. And once sequels did go out of their way to craft answers, it made things less interesting. I'm not giving Lindleof/Cuse the same level of regard as to Carpenter in this comparison, again, fully acknowledged that they just didn't know, but in the end I personally consider that a happy accident.

There really is something to the idea that not everything has to be defined, but I think maybe mystique would be a more precise term for what you have in mind?

[Theleviathan]

It depends on how much TRoS makes at the bank. That still has yet to be determined. Critical opinions do not reflect audience views. At the same time, TRoS comes after Solo which failed, and now there's Disney Plus with Mandalorian as a competitor...so that might drive people to go, "We'll see it on Disney Plus later on". If the movie makes it big, then it will secure Abrams' career.


As for J. J. Abrams' "reputation". It's important to note that critically speaking, his reputation wasn't very high to start with. As a director, Abrams has made six movies so far (including TRoS), he was always seen as very derivative as a film-maker, his early stuff borrowed from early Spielberg and so on. As a franchise director, he managed to invigorate and bring a contemporary spirit to Mission Impossible III and Star Trek, and also Star Wars. His movie Super 8 is a Spielberg-homage.

As a producer, he was behind Alias, and Lost, hit TV Shows, and he produced Cloverfield which is genuinely considered a great film (directed by Matt Reeves who has "heat" on him so-to-speak). Basically the stuff which people say about Lucas is true to a greater degree of Abrams. He's only good as his collaborators and material. And where Lucas' collaborators generally didn't distinguish themselves away from him, that's not the case with Abrams.

Rian Johnson on the other hand was always a well liked film-maker...people liked Brick with J-G Levitt, and Looper, and Knives Out. He wrote and directed those films, and The Last Jedi as well. Career-wise, he's the most distinguished film-maker to make a Star Wars movie after Lucas himself. Everybody else were journeyman such as Kershner, Marquand, and I guess you can add Abrams there too.

TLJ is the best of the ST, which is again not saying a great deal. Because nobody will say that movie is among Rian Johnson's best though vastly more people will have seen TLJ than ever will any of his other movies. It's also not among the best Star Wars movies and doesn't hold a candle to anything Lucas did.

Doesn't he have to have had a great reputation to be handed Star Trek and Star Wars?

[titanfan]

Doesn't he have to have had a great reputation to be handed Star Trek and Star Wars?

They gave the screenplay for this movie to a guy whose last movies was Batman vs. Superman and Justice League.

[Celgress]

They gave the screenplay for this movie to a guy whose last movies was Batman vs. Superman and Justice League.

LOL, 'nough said.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[Punisher007]

It did get a better ending. It was called Return of the Jedi. Here's the reality, at the end of the day, this trilogy accomplished nothing significant. It brought back the status quo we thought we got in ROTJ only it decided to murder and piss on all the original characters to do it

(Watches the epic and satisfying conclusion in ROTJ and sighs), why couldn't they have just left it alone? Or had the guts to actually move things forward?

I still don't really like the PT, but at least Lucas TRIED to do some new stuff, there was ambition there. No so much with the ST.

[AJBopp]

He definitely didn't. Leia wasn't made into Luke's sister till the planning stages of ROTJ.

Luke and Leia were siblings in the earliest drafts of the movie, back when their name was Starkiller. What changed in the planning stages was only that Lucas chose not to reveal their relationship until the third movie, letting the public wonder "Will she get Luke or Han?"

In true Lucas fashion, she got both. Everyone had a happy ending.

[ZeroBG82]

Luke and Leia were siblings in the earliest drafts of the movie, back when their name was Starkiller. What changed in the planning stages was only that Lucas chose not to reveal their relationship until the third movie, letting the public wonder "Will she get Luke or Han?"

In true Lucas fashion, she got both. Everyone had a happy ending.

This is patently untrue. The decision to make Leia into Luke's sister came during the script writing phase of Return of the Jedi, not before. Prior to that Lucas had intended the sister to be a new character who would appear on the scene later in the story and serve as a new principle protagonist either instead of or alongside Luke. That character ended up folded into Leia when Lucas decided to wrap things up during RotJ.