Marauders #4 Pillows, Fish and the return of [Redacted] *spoilers*

[People Of The Earth]

Kitty would never do that sort of thing

Except that's the real Lady Deathstrike on this page you posted, not some cheap copycats.
Lady Deathstrike HAS an Healing factor, every X-man knows that and that includes Kitty Pryde. That she would go hardcore on her as a result makes much more sense than her going hardcore on sapien soldiers (who'll probably lose their legs following their confrontation with her) or on crude fac-similes whom she had no clue if they were able to sustain the same kind of damage than the real Lady Deathstrike without dying.
I know it's Always complicated with you to highlight NUANCE in this kind of discussion, but please, do try and perceive it here, because of how obvious said nuance is.

[hulkling]

Now I am seeing it, Black Cat 10# for March mentions Kilglore as the “leader of the criminal capital of the world” so maybe the Hellfire kids will take control over Madripoor

[Maestroneto]

Kitty would never do that sort of thing

That’s Ogun.

[WeaponX]

Of all the villains they pick the hellfire brats, sigh. I’ll give it a chance but honestly those kids are the lowest point of the X-franchise. I loved Wolverine and the X-men but it just wrecked my suspension of disbelief. And that’s saying a lot because you have to suspend a lot of disbelief for X-men comics.

[Triniking1234]

I think that's what the idea was supposed to be, and its a cool concept in theory. But it probably would have worked better if they were trying to be more secretive about it. Having Storm, one of the most famous mutants in the world and something in charge of the country, dropping lightning bolts on soldiers in broad daylight creates some bad optics for the team and Krakoa. That's all I'm trying to say.

Now I'm trying to think what kind of team they could use if they went the sneaky Underground Railroad route. Kate would still lead, in fact she'd be perfect. Replace Storm with Nightcrawler. Maybe have someone with less flashy powers like Domino...

I hear ya but the nature of superhero comics will always result in fights just like in this issue where Bishop and Kitty snuck in and still got into a fight.

But the books are written where the X-Men are only fighting cuz they or other mutants were attacked first.

[Michael Watkins]

isn't this the same universe where a three year old was the smartest person in the universe, capable of manipulating both doctor doom and mister fantastic

jury's out on that one, if we're talking about Valeria. there was nothing ordinary about her creation. you'll remember that she was wished into existence by her reality-warping brother. then factor in that her father is a cosmic ray enhanced super human who held the title of smartest man on the planet. and then consider that she was birthed with a magical assist from Doctor Doom and used as a trojan horse of sorts so he could get his revenge in Unthinkable. there's enough precedent there to explain her hyper intelligence. but there are plenty of people who accept that she's advanced while criticizing her wealth of knowledge. Reed Richards is a genius. but he still had to study. he had to be exposed to the knowledge that he possesses. he's an older guy with gray temples. he's more believable as a learned individual than a toddler. is this assertion unreasonable? the hellfire brats is a concept that takes the already sketchy Valeria Richards concept and makes it doubly ridiculous. now it's a collective of Valeria's running a secret cabal seemingly without competition. and there are adults eagerly aligning with them. this is crap writing. this is the Avengers complimenting Carol Danvers magical pregnancy despite her misgivings bad.

Pretty sure all the smartest MU characters are kids these days (Amadeus, Moon Girl, Riri)

it's a reality. but is it a good thing? and does it make sense in-story? i'm reasonably certain that it was a reaction to there being so many white male geniuses. every writer suddenly had an idea for a minority genius (nothing wrong w/ that). and, for whatever reason, they chose to make them children (except for Adam Brashear). maybe they are thinking to the future. i see it as an over-correction. they could have had a few of the characters be fresh out of grad school or something. but it's easier to make a kid hyper intelligent from jump. because then they can pretty much do anything and you don't have to show the work. they are magic practicioners, in a way. it's how mutants came to be. writers were too lazy to write origin stories. in the long run, it will hurt these characters. and i'm talking about the good characters; not those Hellfire jokes.

[jwatson]

The mutant-devouring monsters at the gates is just so cartoonishly evil it skews any attempt to analyze the situation. I'm surprised they're doing it with Brazil and not a made up country or a country like North Korea that nobody cares about (because they're a closed market for comic books. money talks!)

Like, you could say that Krakoa was the aggressor, by opening portals in Brazil that lead directly to their country with all their 'dangerous' mutants. Its a new border, which causes tons of problems with every nation. But people eating monsters as a response? How?! Why?! How is that in any way shape or form seen as a legit response and not an international scandal in its own right?

When I said optics, I meant that they should try to avoid situations where they look like the aggressors. That's why I said they should have been sneakier about this. They already have enough problems without intentionally making more. Places like Brazil already hate them to a ridiculous degree. Krakoa should try not to give them anything that they can use to claim to the rest of the world that they are in the right.

I wouldn't worry about the optics. For all we know Storm created a fog so thick no one saw a thing. ^_^

[Frobisher]

Everyone stop being shocked at OTT slapstick violence and drunken debauchery in a Duggan book this instant.

[JB]

I wouldn't worry about the optics. For all we know Storm created a fog so thick no one saw a thing. ^_^

And even if not, I love the show of strength. They are a recognized, sovereign nation and they are making it clear that if their fellow mutants want to come home to Krakoa but are being blocked, they will be rescued.

Besides, Christian has the super secret submarine. That's where all the fun is happening.

[Celestialbodies]

Kill no man means "murder" not "self defense or defense of your country". They clearly discuss that part when law was being made but certain fans are pretending that it means "You never ever kill humans" but whatever.

Exactly!!

Attachment 90508

I feel like with situations like these readers really need to consider the context. I feel like there's a difference between attacking someone with malicious intent and disfiguring them. Opposed to an enemy literally attempting to kill a hero, and then they respond in kind, harshly. Characters and by extension writers typically use what's at their disposal to tell the story they need to tell, now if there's anything amiss with Kitty then hopefully the series will elaborate on that.


It reminds me of XM:R, and the countless debates that raged because Jean telepathically made both soldier and mutant refugees understand each other based on their emotions. She was accused of mind-wiping the soldiers, ignoring the fact that mere moments prior the soldiers were literally about to murder all their mutant captives without prejudice, please excuse the pun.

[Kisinith]

Again, in the first image you posted the pillow was still in motion - you can see it going through her right arm actually, and that's obviously not the case anymore in the actually relevant panel you finally relented to post.
So I still disagree with your assessment, especially with the bolded part.
The right side of her torso was merged with that pillow, from bellow her chest to the middle of her face: that's the ribs, lung, shoulder and jaw on those sides that are done for.
Same for the circulatory system in the affected area that is either severed or destroyed as a result of the maiming.

Nicely irrelevant though, seeing as the point I made was about the internal bleedings caused by the wound she sustained and the risk of her drowning in her own blood as a result - litteraly.
And that's not Something who would happen instantly, even with the kind of trauma her lung experienced.

She has the thing rammed through her torso, that means her lung there is gone, and her circulatory system destroyed in that area.
That's both internal bleeding and suffocation on the table, she could litteraly drown in her own blood - she probably does actually.

You are the one saying the lung is gone which as far as lethality goes is by far the more significant threat, and that suffocation is on the table which is why I responded to that.
Yes, the pillow was in motion… a straight up and down motion, not left to right, from the position of her arm and the elongated shape of the pillow it cannot move any significant distance left or right without gross motor activity not shown on panel and thus not realistically significant.
The other pictures have a skewed perspective, down the long axis of her body and to the side thus obscuring how much of her is actually impacted. The first image is by far the clearest, you are trying to discount it because it undercuts your assumption and thus the argument.

Both of these issues are moot if its not in the lung, with respects of a lethal injury, I fully acknowledge it as a maiming injury, too bad she wouldn’t have access to replacement cybernetic arms... Also the essence of my argument is and has been that the actual severity of the wound is only significant if the writers want it to be. The reactions of Kitty AND Bishop indicate that you are wrong, serious but not lethal. You are speculating beyond what is shown or indicated. Then presenting a worst case, worst look scenario as if it were gospel truth with only artistic interpretation to back that assumption up. An assumption that is in contradiction to the long established operating procedure of superhero comics in general and Marvel in specific.

As a side note, I find it nice that your society take first-aid training so seriously: beyond lawful commitments, it's a mark (among others) of good ohs culture.

Thank you, I wish it were more prevalent, but it really is a requirement of the job, fortunately not one I’ve been forced to make much use of.

As I said, internal bleeding is the real concern here, beyond all the physical damages she sustained.
That her trachea remained unskated is irrelevant here.
Her right lung is done for, her circulatory system is compromised in the area affected by the pillow, the chance of her drowning in her own blood is real.

Yes, in the real world, I completely agree. In a comic book not so much.

Good thing my point was about the gravity of the wound inflicted by Kitty then, not about whether or not that woman was actually dead.
I said - quite clearly, quite extensively even - that the nature of those wounds were lethal to most people in 616 and that, unless that woman received immediate medical help or possessed an Healing factor, or any sort of Healing power, she would die from the wound as a result.
That's an observation, as much as noting Kitty new lease on violence inflicted on others and her developing drinking habits.

In the real world not in comic books, comic writers and artists do not consult medical texts when plotting or drawing (frequently they don't even consult each other but that's a whole different issue with a whole host of related problems seperate from this), they rely on the “rule of cool” not basic anatomy and physiology. People are beaten, bludgeoned, cut, stabbed, shot, burned, blown up, thrown, fall, poisoned, etc etc with every conceivable form of violence, and death (or maiming) only occurs when they want it to, not necessarily when you think it should.

Hulk.jpg

This isn't a one off, this is how Marvel as a company approaches death and violence. Its only real if they tell you. In a book, in a setting where they go out of the way to tell you they aren't killing, then they aren't killing even if you think its mind-numbingly obvious. This line isn't the exception, its the rule.

I do feel it's a departure from where she was again months ego, I expect this kind of violence from the likes of Punisher or Wolverine, not from her and what I Don't understand is why this escalation happen NOW exactly (the Reason in-universe I mean).

Fair point, also not one I’m arguing against. This is a change for Kate Pryde, not completely out of the blue as its really not too far from her tenure in GotG or Bendis (Fingers in Cyclops head). It also could easily lead to deepening violence. Personally I welcome the change, not because I want another grim/dark wolverine-esque the ends justify the means character, but because Gold and its effect on her were so godawful that drastic change was needed to offset that. Also I think your misreading/misinterpreting the tone of the book. Marauders, to me and this is purely an opinion, is a bit more whimsical, less serious comic (without degenerating into a complete joke the way WatXM did). Very much in line with the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. Kate is supposed to be evoking Jack Sparrow not Frank Castle.

As I said, there's Always a level of commonality between IRL and 616.
The sky is blue.
The sun rises east and sets west.
Taxes will get to you annually.
And so on and so forth.
Violence and its conséquences are no different.
A bullet in the head or a knife in the heart are generally Deadly wounds for anyone. Losing a lung is no joke either.
The nuance in comics lies in how fast and loose the writers plays with superpowers to overcome that.

True
True
True (Probably, does Krakoa have taxes ;p)
Mostly true
Not True, in fact expressly not true as part of the medium. Comic book characters routinely endure grievous bodily injuries, that even taken individually let alone with the severity and frequency that they do, would be crippling or maiming and get up for work the next day (sometimes mere moments later) and that’s not just the ones with super endurance or healing factors. Cracked ribs for example a relatively commonplace injury, require 6 or more weeks of enforced rest with minimal physical exertion. In a comic that would cause slightly slowed reaction times...at most, and usually be over within a single story. The writers (and artists) play fast and loose with injuries all the time.

Again, the nature of the wound that woman receive are catastrophic and unless she receives help or has an Healing power, she will die as a result.
Kitty didn't know if that woman had said Healing powers or if she would receive medical assistance immediately - she didn't know, and it looks like she didn't care either. That attitude, more than anything, is what I find annoying.
It circles back to what I said about her not acting the par of someone who went through what she went through for years, with the experience and maturity she accumulated as a result, but as a petulant, reckless teenager that she hasn't been anymore factually for years now…
It's jarring.

Yes, in the real world, not in a comic book, comic book violence has never ever been realistic. The consequences of comic book violence has also never been realistic.In the MU Death is a narrative tool, not an inevitability.

[JKtheMac]

Clearly we are supposed to be shocked by this new Kate. She is making a habit of wilfully maiming people and she is drinking more than she usually would. On the other hand she is maiming people that are actively seeking to maim or kill her or other mutants and she isn’t necessarily being portrayed as an alcoholic. (Certainly not by European attitudes at least. I can’t speak to the slightly conflicting messages I receive over US attitudes to alcohol.)

I also agree that the violence while shocking is in a comic book context and is certainly not being depicted as lethal force. Not that we would blink if Wolverine had killed any of her victims even under the new ‘Kill no Man’ law. Kate is not Wolverine and she isn’t acting like him. She is harder but not a killer.

I still think she is under a foreign influence and expect it to be slowly revealed in the story, but if this is the case it is clearly a slow burn reveal.

[AbnormallyNormal]

I would much prefer this to be "the real Kate" though, and just a change in her character. Much more compelling reading for me.

Maestroneto and some others have referenced how Kate has indeed done violent stuff in her past, and has some history of rebelliousness and all that. So this doesn't truly come out of absolutely nowhere. It's just up to Dugg-ster to actually motivate and justify it a lot more than he has so far.

My supposition is the intraHellfire clashes may push Kate closer to a point of no return. Either that or on some mission to save mutants she flips out and make a "final" decision to punish oppressors which could alienate the likes of Ororo and Bobby from her.

[JKtheMac]

Combined with the gates refusing her passage which we are continually reminded of (here by the reference to Krakoan language) it still seems highly likely she is covertly possessed by a non-mutant influence of some kind.

[AbnormallyNormal]

Combined with the gates refusing her passage which we are continually reminded of (here by the reference to Krakoan language) it still seems highly likely she is covertly possessed by a non-mutant influence of some kind.

We definitely need to find out what's the deal with her not being allowed through gates but it'd feel like a waste narratively to chalk up all this character arc to possession.