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  1. #181
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoCoBandz View Post
    Does "kill no man" even apply to post-humans? They're more Skynet that man sooo...

    Test tube nano babies can get this work tbh.
    Kill no man means "murder" not "self defense or defense of your country". They clearly discuss that part when law was being made but certain fans are pretending that it means "You never ever kill humans" but whatever.

  2. #182
    Astonishing Member Beetle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    Is it just the art or are the Hellfire Brats looking a bit older than they did in Aaron's run? I personally just think it's the art, especially when Frankenstein recently showed up in Marvel Monsters as the main antagonist.
    I could have sworn that the cat abuser was supposed to have aged up when she went through the Siege Perilous

    But that may have been a fever dream of mine after trying to make sense of that book

  3. #183
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    I know nothing about these children besides everyone on this board seems to hate them. Can anyone elaborate?

    Did we really need a second Hellfire Club? The current one is already taking up so much space from its infighting and the government it is supposed to be representing not trusting 2/3rds of the people they've put in charge of it.

    I couldn't get behind the moment with Storm. They're supposed to be a nation! You can't have one of the leaders of your country leading assaults on the navy of another country and seizing their citizens. Its just ridiculous.

  4. #184
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    Yeah and that sucked. So now I'm glad we're moving on (Gold Kitty was even too much of a level-headed leader compared to previous Iterations).

    I think that Hank wanted Bishop to keep an eye on Kitty and not only the Hellfire Club.
    Different tastes for different readers, but I'm not impressed by adults acting like hormonal teenagers, especially when they have been around and experienced life like Kitty have, and when they occupy important leadership roles like she did at the time.
    I was glad to see her as a matured individual, her subsequent collapse at the end of the gold run and her drunken violent ways now are difficult to reconcile with that.
    What is growth? It's like the joke that X-23 is turning into over in Fallen Angel, as if those characters never learn anything EVER. It's sad, really sad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    Her life fell apart when she couldn't enter the gate.
    I hope not because that would be pathetic: she can still live on Krakoa if she wants to, the gates are just an easy transportation system, they Don't stop her from living there and Moving back and forth.
    Her mutantness is not jeopardized just because she can't use the gates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    Did it say she killed her? Then she didn't. This isn't really a debatable point, Marvel has long operated under the auspices of "If it doesn't explicitly acknowledge a kill then death didn't occur (see the Hulk). Next you have an explicitly stated Krakoan law in the new run, and agreement with and acknowledging that rule in this book. If they break that rule no way its left vague or undefined. Lastly, its been directly stated that the images in this are using "rule of cool". They want it to be cool imagery and a view into Kate's headspace. Anything else is head-cannon and speculation
    Yeah, that pillow rammed into that woman torso and shoulder is the kind of wounds that would be mortal to most people.
    Nothing speculative about observing that, sorry.
    Unless that woman receives immediate medical help or has had an Healing factor grafted to her somehow, she'll be dead in minutes from the bleeding, the suffocation, the pain all happening at once.
    Last edited by People Of The Earth; 12-19-2019 at 02:23 AM.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

  5. #185
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    Different tastes for different readers, but I'm not impressed by adults acting like hormonal teenagers, especially when they have been around and experienced life like Kitty have, and when they occupy important leadership roles like she did at the time.
    I was glad to see her as a matured individual, her subsequent collapse at the end of the gold run and her drunken violent ways now are difficult to reconcile with that.
    What is growth? It's like the joke that X-23 is turning into over in Fallen Angel, as if those characters never learn anything EVER. It's sad, really sad.



    I hope not because that would be pathetic: she can still live on Krakoa if she wants to, the gates are just an easy transportation system, they Don't stop her from living there and Moving back and forth.
    Her mutantness is not jeopardized just because she can't use the gates.



    Yeah, that pillow rammed into that woman torso and shoulder is the kind of wounds that would be mortal to most people.
    Nothing speculative about observing that, sorry.
    Unless that woman receives immediate medical help or has had an Healing factor grafted to her somehow, she'll be dead in minutes from the bleeding, the suffocation, the pain all happening at once.
    In the real world sure, but this isn't the real world its superhero comics. If real world physics and consequences applied every Marvel and DC hero is a murderer many times over. Cyclops would blow his head off every time he opens his eyes. Speedsters would reduce themselves into a puddle of goo everytime they run. Comics are an entertainment medium with a built in suspension of disbelief and literary rules that apply. The MUs opertaing philosophy is based more on rule of cool than Newtons 3rd law. Thats a hardcoded aspect of the medium and complaints to the contrary aren't genuine criticism because it ignores the decades of history and precedent of the medium.

  6. #186
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Milton View Post
    I'm sorry, are we supposed to care about the well being of the attempted murderers?

    Both instances of Kate using her powers offensively have been in response to people who were actively trying to kill her or other people. They were wounded, but lived. I don't see the problem.
    Pardon me, guv. I'm just not used to Beatrix Kiddo Shadowcat.
    "Cable was right!"

  7. #187
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    I know nothing about these children besides everyone on this board seems to hate them. Can anyone elaborate?
    They're a bunch of evil kid geniuses Jason Aaron introduced in Schism and they became the main antagonists for Wolverine and the X-Men which kinda made sense since that was supposed to be a X-Academy book... until it didn't so you had all these senior X-Men getting bullied by flatscan kids which led to a lot of people on the board not liking them.
    "Cable was right!"

  8. #188
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    I was hoping this book would have had more of a political thriller type of vibes with a lot of scheming and plot twist. Unfortunately, it’s giving me Saturday morning cartoon vibes. I’d love to see Sebastian demonstrate how formidable he is as the Black King of the Hellfiire Club. Emma is too comfortable in her position. Kitty feels out of character with the bruise eye and tattoos. At least her long hair is back but her red queen outfit feels tacky as fcuk. No here for the Hellfire Brats. Can’t Selene just have them for lunch?

  9. #189
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    In the real world sure, but this isn't the real world its superhero comics. If real world physics and consequences applied every Marvel and DC hero is a murderer many times over. Cyclops would blow his head off every time he opens his eyes. Speedsters would reduce themselves into a puddle of goo everytime they run. Comics are an entertainment medium with a built in suspension of disbelief and literary rules that apply. The MUs opertaing philosophy is based more on rule of cool than Newtons 3rd law. Thats a hardcoded aspect of the medium and complaints to the contrary aren't genuine criticism because it ignores the decades of history and precedent of the medium.
    I haven't forgotten Claremont's run and it is also a part of history of the comics. It was entertainment but not only, there was violence but it wasn't mindless.

  10. #190
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    I KNEW as soon as I saw this last panel:




    … that it would elicit a certain response from a specific segment of the fandom. I'm guessin' the creators probably realized it too, so... well-played?

    And to be fair, isn't it within the realm of reasonability that this adversarial, enhanced post-human had precautionary measures readily in place, to deal with & overcome such battle induced damage? Seems to me, that would be a bit of a foregone conclusion, given what we've learned about them so far. I mean, their overall durability & underlying augmentations apparently come at least partially, from keeping contingency in mind.
    Last edited by Heroine Addict; 12-19-2019 at 07:00 AM.

  11. #191
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    I haven't forgotten Claremont's run and it is also a part of history of the comics. It was entertainment but not only, there was violence but it wasn't mindless.
    So what? I didn't mention anything about mindless violence. If you want to criticize the books over the violence go nuts. Complaining that the violence used would be lethal in the real world however is an absurd criticism considering the medium, and that was true even in Claremont's era.

  12. #192
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heroine Addict View Post
    I KNEW as soon as I saw this last panel:




    … that it would illicit a certain response from a specific segment of the fandom. I'm guessin' the creators probably realized it too, so... well-played?

    And to be fair, isn't it within the realm of reasonability that this adversarial, enhanced post-human had precautionary measures readily in place, to deal with & overcome such battle induced damage? Seems to me, that would be a bit of a foregone conclusion, given what we've learned about them so far. I mean, their overall durability & underlying augmentations apparently come at least partially, from keeping contingency in mind.
    Lady Deathstrike has got some healing capabilities, right? (I don't quite remember if she was less robot than today's version at a point? I've always remembered her as being enhanced but at a point she was a full on android right?). I mean, she's mostly robotic anyway so I guess these two ladies are mostly robotic too and can probably shrug it off (they were essentially Reavers).

  13. #193
    Emma Been Frost Perfection/Emma 2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    I know nothing about these children besides everyone on this board seems to hate them. Can anyone elaborate?

    Did we really need a second Hellfire Club? The current one is already taking up so much space from its infighting and the government it is supposed to be representing not trusting 2/3rds of the people they've put in charge of it.

    I couldn't get behind the moment with Storm. They're supposed to be a nation! You can't have one of the leaders of your country leading assaults on the navy of another country and seizing their citizens. Its just ridiculous.
    Storm was rescuing mutants who didn't want to be in their home country anymore what's the issues?
    Emma Frost & Aero fan

  14. #194
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    Accidental, premature posting, lol.
    Last edited by Heroine Addict; 12-19-2019 at 07:19 AM.

  15. #195
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    In the real world sure, but this isn't the real world its superhero comics. If real world physics and consequences applied every Marvel and DC hero is a murderer many times over. Cyclops would blow his head off every time he opens his eyes. Speedsters would reduce themselves into a puddle of goo everytime they run. Comics are an entertainment medium with a built in suspension of disbelief and literary rules that apply. The MUs opertaing philosophy is based more on rule of cool than Newtons 3rd law. Thats a hardcoded aspect of the medium and complaints to the contrary aren't genuine criticism because it ignores the decades of history and precedent of the medium.
    This isn't the real world but this isn't a saturday Morning cartoon either.
    There's a minimum level of commonality between IRL and the Marvel Universe that we can say that:
    -if people take a bullet in their head, they die;
    -if people get stabbed in their heart, they die;
    -if people fall over a 10-story building, they die...
    And so on and so forth.

    That woman has a pillow rammed through her torso, shoulder and face.

    You can suspend your disbelief all the way up through the roof if you want, those wounds would prove fatal to anyone not having some sort of Healing power or receiving extensive medical assistance in the Marvel universe.
    That's just how that universe works, if anything you are the one ignoring the history of the Marvel universe if you pretend that kind of wound isn't Deadly to most 616 inhabitants...
    That's an observation, not a criticism, not unlike what happened to QQ in the last issue of X-Force btw.

    The "genuine criticism" as you put it lies in Kitty Pryde being the one inflicting that kind of damage to her opponents.
    You'd expect that from the likes of Wolverine or the Punisher, not from her.

    People having their lung rammed through like this woman here will die or be on their way to dying as a result, IRL or 616, there's no getting around that. Of course, you are free to consider the opposite but it doesn't change this.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

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